ECT Apostolic Succession

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
You cannot find "Apostolic Succession" in the Bible. There was one apostolic replacement, but no more.

Ah, my old friend. I will simply show you that you arent wrong, and let you do with the information as you please.

Look at 1 Timothy 1:6 and 4:14, where Paul reminds Timothy that the office of bishop had been conferred on him through the laying on of hands. Notice in 1 Timothy 5:22 that Paul advises Timothy not to be hasty in handing on this authority to others.

There we have three "generations" Paul, the Timothy, then the other who Timothy will hand off to.

Furthermore, it is only common sense, that if Jesus told the apostles to make disciples of all nations, this would be the work of decades, even centuries, so succession is surely implied..


Jesus told the twelve apostles that THEY would sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And? That has nothing to do with this.


The "oral tradition" of the Roman Catholic "church" is a sham through and through.

Well, Apostolic Succession is believed by Orthodox, Coptics, Traditional Anglicans, as well as Catholic. In fact, prior to the protestant reformation, it was believed by all Christians. That is an historical facts.

What you believe is only believed by a minority of the Christian world.

These are facts. I find it amazing how in the political world you can see so clearly how the Left promotes fake news and perverts history, and yet in religion, you actually take on their MO and do the same thing.

Ah well, I know I won't convince you. I gave you the facts. Accept them or discard them as you will.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Ah, my old friend. I will simply show you that you arent wrong, and let you do with the information as you please.

Look at 1 Timothy 1:6 and 4:14, where Paul reminds Timothy that the office of bishop had been conferred on him through the laying on of hands. Notice in 1 Timothy 5:22 that Paul advises Timothy not to be hasty in handing on this authority to others.

There we have three "generations" Paul, the Timothy, then the other who Timothy will hand off to.
Please show any scripture where Timothy is called an apostle.
Furthermore, it is only common sense, that if Jesus told the apostles to make disciples of all nations, this would be the work of decades, even centuries, so succession is surely implied..
That "plan" never came to fruition. Note this:
Matt 10:23 (AKJV/PCE)
(10:23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Did that happen? No, it did not. Something else intervened.
And? That has nothing to do with this.
Yes, it does. THEY and THEY ALONE were to be the judges of Israel and not their "successors".
Well, Apostolic Succession is believed by Orthodox, Coptics, Traditional Anglicans, as well as Catholic.
I don't care how many false religions believe it.
In fact, prior to the protestant reformation, it was believed by all Christians. That is an historical facts.
Nonsense.
What you believe is only believed by a minority of the Christian world.
Fallacious logic.
These are facts. I find it amazing how in the political world you can see so clearly how the Left promotes fake news and perverts history, and yet in religion, you actually take on their MO and do the same thing.
You are a liar.
Ah well, I know I won't convince you. I gave you the facts. Accept them or discard them as you will.
I accept facts and reject RCC falsehoods. You should do the same.
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
You always did like to break my posts up into a million tiny pieces, and thus my posts lose the original meaning as you post them.

Lookie, you are free to believe as you wish, and I am not here to proselytize.

But at least do me the courtesy of admitting that the majority of Christians on this planet believe as I do and not as you do.

Now that may not matter to you, but it means that you do not have a monopoly on what Christian beliefs are. Your beliefs are yours alone, and you are free to have them. The rest of us believe differently.

Denominations_Pie_Plotly_MyData_big3.png
 

Right Divider

Body part
You always did like to break my posts up into a million tiny pieces, and thus my posts lose the original meaning as you post them.

Lookie, you are free to believe as you wish, and I am not here to proselytize.

But at least do me the courtesy of admitting that the majority of Christians on this planet believe as I do and not as you do.

Now that may not matter to you, but it means that you do not have a monopoly on what Christian beliefs are. Your beliefs are yours alone, and you are free to have them. The rest of us believe differently.

Denominations_Pie_Plotly_MyData_big3.png
How many people believe something is meaningless as to whether it's true or not.

You are using a FALLACY!
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
The "oral tradition" of the Roman Catholic "church" is a sham through and through.
Well, Apostolic Succession is believed by Orthodox, Coptics, Traditional Anglicans, as well as Catholic. In fact, prior to the protestant reformation, it was believed by all Christians. That is an historical facts.

What you believe is only believed by a minority of the Christian world.

These are facts

Orthodox Church
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Apostolic succession
is the tracing of a direct line of apostolic ordination, Orthodox doctrine, and full communion from the Apostles to the current episcopacy of the Orthodox Church. All three elements are constitutive of apostolic succession.

It is through apostolic succession that the Orthodox Christian Church is the spiritual successor to the original body of believers in Christ that was composed of the Apostles. This succession manifests itself through the unbroken succession of its bishops back to the apostles.

The unbrokenness of apostolic succession is significant because of Jesus Christ's promise that the "gates of hell" (Matthew 16:18) would not prevail against the Church, and his promise that he himself would be with the apostles to "the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20). According to this interpretation, a complete disruption or end of such apostolic succession would mean that these promises were not kept as would an apostolic succession which, while formally intact, completely abandoned the teachings of the Apostles and their immediate successors; as, for example, if all the bishops of the world agreed to abrogate the Nicene Creed or repudiate the Holy Scripture.

Orthodox teachings today are the same as that of the first apostles, though their mode of expression has adapted over the centuries to deal with heresies, changes in culture and so forth. This form of the doctrine was first formulated by St. Irenaeus of Lyons in the second century, in response to certain Gnostics. These Gnostics claimed that Christ or the Apostles passed on some teachings secretly, or that there were some secret apostles, and that they (the Gnostics) were passing on these otherwise secret teachings. Irenaeus responded that the identity of the original Apostles was well known, as was the main content of their teaching and the identity of the Apostles' successors. Therefore, anyone teaching something contrary to what was known to be apostolic teaching was not, in any sense, a successor to the Apostles or to Christ.

In addition to a line of historic transmission, Orthodox Christian churches additionally require that a hierarch maintain Orthodox doctrine as well as full communion with other Orthodox bishops. As such, the Orthodox do not recognize the existence of apostolic succession outside the Orthodox Church, precisely because the episcopacy is a ministry within the Church.

 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
The Traditional Anglican Church
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We continue in the historic Anglican expression of the Christian Faith as the same has been transmitted to us through the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, the Creeds of the Undivided Church, and the Book of Common Prayer. We are determined to continue in the Catholic Faith, Apostolic Order, Orthodox Worship, and Evangelical Witness of the historic Anglican Church, with its traditional liturgy, music and patrimony.

Our ways are ancient because the Faith is unchanging. We stand on the Rock of our faith — the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ — in the midst of the turbulent sea of an ever-changing world. We offer you this firm foundation in order that you may know Him who is the Way, the Truth and the Life; and the peace of God which passes man’s understanding.

 

Right Divider

Body part
@Catholic Crusader I'm immune to your false doctrines.

It is clear from the Bible that there is no such doctrine as "Apostolic Succession". There was ONE apostolic replacement and NO MORE. James was killed in Acts 12 and there is no hint of a "succession". The reason for the replacement of Judas Iscariot is clearly explained in Acts 1 and was unique.
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
@Catholic Crusader I'm immune to your false doctrines.

What you are immune to is facts, and what you suffer from is acute dishonesty.

Earlier in this thread you implied that Apostolic Succession was Catholic doctrine.

In posts 107 and 108 I proved that others believe it true.

And here all you do is deflect.

You are an intellectually dishonest person. A real Christian would show humility and admit his error. You show pride and arrogance and move the goal post. You have not changed a bit.

You are on Ignore.
 
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Right Divider

Body part
What you are immune to is facts, and what you suffer from is acute dishonesty.
Again you LIE about me. Is that what your religion teaches you?
Earlier in this thread you implied that Apostolic Succession was Catholic doctrine.
What I was saying is that AS is unbiblical no matter where it comes from.
You are an intellectually dishonest person.
Again you LIE. You are a habitual liar.
A real Christian would show humility and admit his error. You show pride and arrogance and move the goal post. You have not changed a bit.
Again... LIES.
You are on Ignore.
Good for you.
 
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Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
Keep in mind that Apostolic succession is defined right in the OP in the third sentence: " Apostolic succession is the line of bishops stretching back to the apostles." That's all it is, and that is why " Apostolic Succession was always recognized by the early church" is not an argument or a fallacy, but just a fact of history, just like Christ's Resurrection is a fact of history.

That is correct. But we must be mindful of the spiritual aspect too, through the laying on of hands, the authority Christ gave to teach, baptise and forgive sins in his name, is passed down.
 

Idolater

"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
That is correct. But we must be mindful of the spiritual aspect too, through the laying on of hands, the authority Christ gave to teach, baptise and forgive sins in his name, is passed down.
We must be mindful too of the notion of in persona Christi. Whenever anyone, even if they're not a believer, baptizes anyone else, in the name of the Trinity, they validly baptize in persona Christi. This is what the Apostles taught, and we know this for certain, because it's what all the bishops taught in the 1990s, including Pope now Saint John Paul II. The power to validly celebrate the sacrament of Baptism is distributed to literally anybody who can speak. So also it's in voce Christi as well, the baptism, Christ's own voice speaks those words, "I baptize you, in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" amen.

In persona Christi is a severely important and mysterious teaching!
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
We must be mindful too of the notion of in persona Christi. Whenever anyone, even if they're not a believer, baptizes anyone else, in the name of the Trinity, they validly baptize in persona Christi. This is what the Apostles taught, and we know this for certain, because it's what all the bishops taught in the 1990s, including Pope now Saint John Paul II. The power to validly celebrate the sacrament of Baptism is distributed to literally anybody who can speak. So also it's in voce Christi as well, the baptism, Christ's own voice speaks those words, "I baptize you, in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" amen.

In persona Christi is a severely important and mysterious teaching!

You are correct of course.
 
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