...although He doesn’t know how

[Unsettler]

In Mark 4, we read parables about the Kingdom of Heaven. Let's discuss verses 26 to 29.

"The kingdom of God is like this,” he said. “A man scatters seed on the ground. He sleeps and rises night and day; the seed sprouts and grows, although he doesn’t know how. The soil produces a crop by itself — first the blade, then the head, and then the full grain on the head. As soon as the crop is ready, he sends for the sickle, because the harvest has come."

This parable starts with God sowing, and it ends with him reaping. We are first introduced to the man; then (at the end), the man is referred to by his pronoun.

A man scatters seed. (God shares His Word)
Seed sprouts and grows (Word causes some to become Christians)
Although he doesn’t know how (God does not know the future exhaustively)
The soil produces a crop by itself (Little by little, Christians grow Christianity by their own actions)
As soon as the crop is ready, he sends for the sickle (God ends the age)

What do you think?

 

[Idolater]

I think you're stupid. I just can't tell why you'd want to act stupid.

 

[Unsettler]

Why is it always "acting" with you? Lol

 

[Hoping]

In Mark 4, we read parables about the Kingdom of Heaven. Let's discuss verses 26 to 29.

"The kingdom of God is like this,” he said. “A man scatters seed on the ground. He sleeps and rises night and day; the seed sprouts and grows, although he doesn’t know how. The soil produces a crop by itself — first the blade, then the head, and then the full grain on the head. As soon as the crop is ready, he sends for the sickle, because the harvest has come."

This parable starts with God sowing, and it ends with him reaping. We are first introduced to the man; then (at the end), the man is referred to by his pronoun.

A man scatters seed. (God shares His Word)
Seed sprouts and grows (Word causes some to become Christians)
Although he doesn’t know how (God does not know the future exhaustively)
The soil produces a crop by itself (Little by little, Christians grow Christianity by their own actions)
As soon as the crop is ready, he sends for the sickle (God ends the age)

What do you think?

Don't you think verse 27 is talking about the farmer, and not about God...who knows everything ?

 

[Unsettler]

Don't you think verse 27 is talking about the farmer, and not about God...who knows everything ?

How would that harmonize with "the farmer" initiating "the harvest," when clearly the harvest refers to the end of the world, as in so many of Jesus's other parables?

 

[Hoping]

How would that harmonize with "the farmer" initiating "the harvest," when clearly the harvest refers to the end of the world, as in so many of Jesus's other parables?

The parable says, in Mark 4:26-27..."And he (Jesus) said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground:
27 And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how."
Jesus is using the parable to teach that the "end" won't come until the "harvest" is ready.

Do you have a different take-away from the parable ?

 

[Unsettler]

Yes, to me it speaks to the openness of the future. God speaks, some people respond positively and start working together to spread God's word and strive to obey it. This growth and development is not exhaustively foreknown and micromanaged, instead it is generally allowed to develop in its own organic way. When God is satisfied with the maturity of His movement, He will end this world and separate His devotees from the rest of the people.

 

[Clete]

In Mark 4, we read parables about the Kingdom of Heaven. Let's discuss verses 26 to 29.

"The kingdom of God is like this,” he said. “A man scatters seed on the ground. He sleeps and rises night and day; the seed sprouts and grows, although he doesn’t know how. The soil produces a crop by itself — first the blade, then the head, and then the full grain on the head. As soon as the crop is ready, he sends for the sickle, because the harvest has come."

This parable starts with God sowing, and it ends with him reaping. We are first introduced to the man; then (at the end), the man is referred to by his pronoun.

A man scatters seed. (God shares His Word)
Seed sprouts and grows (Word causes some to become Christians)
Although he doesn’t know how (God does not know the future exhaustively)
The soil produces a crop by itself (Little by little, Christians grow Christianity by their own actions)
As soon as the crop is ready, he sends for the sickle (God ends the age)

What do you think?

I think it's an interesting take on the passage and that you shouldn't expect that anyone who disagrees with it will have even one syllable of substance to refute it with. The bible flatly does not teach that God has exhaustive foreknowledge - period. If one believes it, is because they were taught it by something other than the bible, like the writings of Aristotle, Plato, Augustine and Calvin.

 

[Idolater]

Why is it always "acting" with you? Lol

Jesus called people hypocrites or actors, He meant liars. Cf. John 8:44 "there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it."

 

[Idolater]

I think you're stupid. I just can't tell why you'd want to act stupid.

Do you know what I mean? You're stupid; that's definitely what I'm saying. But what I'm really trying to say is, you're acting stupid, which is a lie, because you're not stupid, but for some stupid reason, you think it's a good idea to act like you're stupid, and that's why you're stupid. But I can't figure out why you're lying and acting like you're stupid, so I can't articulate it, or prove it here. I'm still working on formulating my theory.

Maybe just stop acting, and then I don't have to continue this arduous work? Just a thought? Peace to you.

 

[Idolater]

You're probably just afraid. Afraid that you're wrong and that Jesus is just made up.

You're not wrong. But you're too afraid to reject Catholicism out of hand rn, maybe later you can confidently comfortably be a Protestant, but for rn, while you confront your fear, you can't afford to just reject Catholicism as even possibly let alone plausibly being Jesus's Church.

God says something like, "Don't worry," "Don't be anxious," "Fear not," like 365 times in the Bible, one time for every day of the year. He did this so that we'd always be able to know and check, on our theology. If we are afraid, then we're disobeying the principle of not worrying, and if our theology leads us to worry regularly, then it's just not right, that's according to God, in the Bible.

There's nothing to worry about in Catholicism, or there's nothing to worry about in being a Catholic.

 

[Clete]

You're probably just afraid. Afraid that you're wrong and that Jesus is just made up.

You're not wrong. But you're too afraid to reject Catholicism out of hand rn, maybe later you can confidently comfortably be a Protestant, but for rn, while you confront your fear, you can't afford to just reject Catholicism as even possibly let alone plausibly being Jesus's Church.

God says something like, "Don't worry," "Don't be anxious," "Fear not," like 365 times in the Bible, one time for every day of the year. He did this so that we'd always be able to know and check, on our theology. If we are afraid, then we're disobeying the principle of not worrying, and if our theology leads us to worry regularly, then it's just not right, that's according to God, in the Bible.

There's nothing to worry about in Catholicism, or there's nothing to worry about in being a Catholic.

LOL!!!!

 

[Hoping]

You're probably just afraid. Afraid that you're wrong and that Jesus is just made up.

You're not wrong. But you're too afraid to reject Catholicism out of hand rn, maybe later you can confidently comfortably be a Protestant, but for rn, while you confront your fear, you can't afford to just reject Catholicism as even possibly let alone plausibly being Jesus's Church.

God says something like, "Don't worry," "Don't be anxious," "Fear not," like 365 times in the Bible, one time for every day of the year. He did this so that we'd always be able to know and check, on our theology. If we are afraid, then we're disobeying the principle of not worrying, and if our theology leads us to worry regularly, then it's just not right, that's according to God, in the Bible.

There's nothing to worry about in Catholicism, or there's nothing to worry about in being a Catholic.

You seem to be "playing both sides of the table".
Which is your POV... reject catholicism, or, don't be afraid to be catholic ?

 

[Idolater]

You seem to be "playing both sides of the table".

You're the only one paddling in that river Hoping.

Which is your POV... reject catholicism, or, don't be afraid to be catholic ?

Why would you think I'm saying to reject Catholicism?

 

[Hoping]

You're the only one paddling in that river Hoping.

Why would you think I'm saying to reject Catholicism?

You did just write..."You're not wrong. But you're too afraid to reject Catholicism out of hand rn, maybe later you can confidently comfortably be a Protestant, but for rn, while you confront your fear, you can't afford to just reject Catholicism as even possibly let alone plausibly being Jesus's Church.
That looked accusatory, or maybe just your observation, to me, and gave me hope that you were steering him away from one of the first breakaway churches.

 

[Idolater]

You did just write..."You're not wrong. But you're too afraid to reject Catholicism out of hand rn, maybe later you can confidently comfortably be a Protestant, but for rn, while you confront your fear, you can't afford to just reject Catholicism as even possibly let alone plausibly being Jesus's Church.

Yes. I'm saying, "You're not wrong: Jesus is real. But you're too afraid (that you're wrong about Jesus being real), to reject Catholicism out of hand right now. Maybe later, you can confidently comfortably be a Protestant, but for right now, while you confront your fear of maybe being wrong about Jesus being real, you can't afford to just reject Catholicism."

What you're doing is refusing the medicine and refusing the crutch and refusing the wheelchair, even though it's just temporary, and it will work to heal you, and then you can stop taking it or using it.

If you even want to. If it even makes sense to at that point. I don't think it will, but you're free to not use the arm sling, once your arm is healed. Until you wear the sling though, your arm will just literally never heal. You will go to your deathbed terrified that Jesus isn't real.

OK? Parallel here; analogy; between being terrified that maybe Jesus isn't real, and an injury that needs to heal. Catholicism is the life preserver, it's the medicine, it's the helping hand, the cast, the brace, the crutch or cane or wheelchair ---- only temporary! unless you want it to be permanent.

That looked accusatory, or maybe just your observation, to me, and gave me hope that you were steering him away from one of the first breakaway churches.

Catholicism's a permanent thing for me because not only do I have no fear of Jesus not being real, but because Catholicism is Jesus's Church, and because I believe in Jesus, I'm going to stick with what He said for me to do, which is to be Catholic.

 

[Hoping]

Yes. I'm saying, "You're not wrong: Jesus is real. But you're too afraid (that you're wrong about Jesus being real), to reject Catholicism out of hand right now. Maybe later, you can confidently comfortably be a Protestant, but for right now, while you confront your fear of maybe being wrong about Jesus being real, you can't afford to just reject Catholicism."

What you're doing is refusing the medicine and refusing the crutch and refusing the wheelchair, even though it's just temporary, and it will work to heal you, and then you can stop taking it or using it.

If you even want to. If it even makes sense to at that point. I don't think it will, but you're free to not use the arm sling, once your arm is healed. Until you wear the sling though, your arm will just literally never heal. You will go to your deathbed terrified that Jesus isn't real.

OK? Parallel here; analogy; between being terrified that maybe Jesus isn't real, and an injury that needs to heal. Catholicism is the life preserver, it's the medicine, it's the helping hand, the cast, the brace, the crutch or cane or wheelchair ---- only temporary! unless you want it to be permanent.

Catholicism's a permanent thing for me because not only do I have no fear of Jesus not being real, but because Catholicism is Jesus's Church, and because I believe in Jesus, I'm going to stick with what He said for me to do, which is to be Catholic.

I think you may have hit on one of the reasons I left catholicism behind me.
They have lots and lots of crutches and slings and bandages, but they have no cures.

 

[Unsettler]

Do you know what I mean? You're stupid; that's definitely what I'm saying. But what I'm really trying to say is, you're acting stupid, which is a lie, because you're not stupid, but for some stupid reason, you think it's a good idea to act like you're stupid, and that's why you're stupid. But I can't figure out why you're lying and acting like you're stupid, so I can't articulate it, or prove it here. I'm still working on formulating my theory.

Maybe just stop acting, and then I don't have to continue this arduous work? Just a thought? Peace to you.

Peace to you, as well, brother. Unfortunately (for the sake of harmony), I can not be a Catholic. I am even more sola scriptura than most Protestants. I am an Open Theist.

My faith comes only from the Bible.

Most Protestants are Platonists with Christian "window-dressing" (the classical theology of Plato has priority over scripture.) Most Catholics are similar, but also add traditions (some of which are beautiful, no doubt) and papal authority over scripture.

There are many ways in which the Bible conflicts with Platonism and Catholic traditions/papal edicts, and I will always choose to believe the most obvious reading of the Bible over any contradicting earthly expert or authority.

 

[Clete]

Peace to you, as well, brother. Unfortunately (for the sake of harmony), I can not be a Catholic. I am even more sola scriptura than most Protestants.

Have you ever thought about the fact that the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is self contradictory in that it is itself not biblical?

I am an Open Theist.

As John Sanders said...

"The openness model is an attempt to provide a more biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship.." - John Sanders "Is Open Theism Christian Theism?"

My faith comes only from the Bible.

Only? Really?

Isn't your faith also sourced in God Himself, not only as the Author of scripture but in your own relationship with Him? Isn't your faith also confirmed by God's creation as well as natural law and the conviction of your own heart (i.e. mind)? Doesn't your every day experience confirm to you not only God's existence but His power and majesty?

Indeed, the bible tells us explicitly that all are without excuse, whether they have a copy of the scripture or not....

​

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.​

​

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:​

Most Protestants are Platonists with Christian "window-dressing" (the classical theology of Plato has priority over scripture.) Most Catholics are similar, but also add traditions (some of which are beautiful, no doubt) and papal authority over scripture.

Totally true! 100%

There are many ways in which the Bible conflicts with Platonism and Catholic traditions/papal edicts, and I will always choose to believe the most obvious reading of the Bible over any contradicting earthly expert or authority.

Amen! The supremacy of God's word over any tradition of man or earthly authority is paramount and, I think, this is really what most regular people who use the term "Sola Scriptura" mean when they say it, and that's fine. I don't want to come off sounding like I have a big issue with it. It's just that I think it's easy to take such concepts too far and we should be careful about what we are implying, especially when we adopt the doctrinal terminology of those who are, as you say, "Platonists with Christian "window-dressing"". At bottom the doctrine of Sola Scriptura is based on the premise that God has exhaustive and absolute omniscience, which, in turn, is based on the premise of absolute divine immutability. Open Theism rejects both of those premises, by definition.

Clete

 

[Clete]

Yes. I'm saying, "You're not wrong: Jesus is real. But you're too afraid (that you're wrong about Jesus being real), to reject Catholicism out of hand right now. Maybe later, you can confidently comfortably be a Protestant, but for right now, while you confront your fear of maybe being wrong about Jesus being real, you can't afford to just reject Catholicism."

What you're doing is refusing the medicine and refusing the crutch and refusing the wheelchair, even though it's just temporary, and it will work to heal you, and then you can stop taking it or using it.

If you even want to. If it even makes sense to at that point. I don't think it will, but you're free to not use the arm sling, once your arm is healed. Until you wear the sling though, your arm will just literally never heal. You will go to your deathbed terrified that Jesus isn't real.

OK? Parallel here; analogy; between being terrified that maybe Jesus isn't real, and an injury that needs to heal. Catholicism is the life preserver, it's the medicine, it's the helping hand, the cast, the brace, the crutch or cane or wheelchair ---- only temporary! unless you want it to be permanent.

Catholicism's a permanent thing for me because not only do I have no fear of Jesus not being real, but because Catholicism is Jesus's Church, and because I believe in Jesus, I'm going to stick with what He said for me to do, which is to be Catholic.

You worship your church as God. That isn't going to work out too well for you.

I Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I [Paul] have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.​

​

You fail to "rightly divide the Word of Truth" (II Tim. 2:15) and thus ignore the "things that differ" (Phil. 1:10). And every post you make that has the word "dispensationalist" under your user name is a lie. An intentionally blatant lie. What does the Catholic Church teach is the recompense for intentional, repeated, habitual, casual sin? What does it teach happens to liars, Idolator?