Aimiel: A False Prophet Who Must Already Be Stoned
- Thread starter Door
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Hilarious? What do U mean?
I do not defend the indefensible, but when slander/libel flies around, I stand up for the underdog or truth.
Ignorance is not bliss, gentlemen.
You still have not told me if you are a pimply teen or a senile old man?
SaulToPaul 2
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Aimiel
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This underdog appreciates you. :thumb:
Aimiel
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So why is it, if Godrulz and I aren't believers, that we believe the verse:
Ephesians 4:11
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
... but you only believe 3/5'ths of it?
You must be listening to a pastor, evangelist or teacher that God didn't give any Biblical understanding to, or simply one who isn't in a relationship with Jesus (or aren't in one yourself, which is most likely).
Door
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You are a liar. I believe that verse, and you and godrulz do not.
I have "listened" to no one. I have read the entire bible, and not just parts of it like you do.
I would explain it to you, but you do not have ears to hear. You have a demon, and refuse to accept anything that your demon rejects.
I will ask you a simple question and see if we can get past your demon.
When someone is building a building, do they have different people who do different things, or do they all do the same thing?
When one part of the building is completed, do those who completed their part continue to add to what is completed?
My apologies. I was wrong (though one can be 35 and immature or senile). Is he in the military (no mullet)? He looks mean. Ex-convict?
There were foundational apostles/prophets, but also ones distinct from the 12 (previously discussed with you). The context applies to local churches. There are 1000s of local churches since the early church. They need the ministry gifts to help the local expression of the Body of Christ reach maturity. As long as we are in the Church Age (universal Body of Christ), we will have local churches that cross centuries and geography that will benefit from the Spirit-inspired blueprint of office gifts (and other gifts that you marginalize to the first century holy huddle). Paul did not rescind these gifts (no exegetical basis for cessationism...it is strictly a biased, sectarian theory), but saw the need for them until the rapture when we will see Him perfectly (I Jn. 3:2).
So, as long as we have local churches that are not raptured, as long as we have a spiritual warfare with Satan, as long as we are not perfect and mature and do not need pastors/teachers/evangelists, etc., we should not substitute modern methods at the expense of the biblical prototype.
I will admit that the majority of churches are not operating in a 5-fold ministry, but there are some that do. Rather than a CEO model of ministry, we need to see all believers as ministers and leaders as servants. No one man or person has all the gifts.
The issue should be discerning true vs false leaders rather than picking and choosing which gifts to keep and which to throw out (in other lists of gifts that mention apostles or tongues, we also have giving, admin., teaching, etc.). Throw out 1, throw out all; keep 1, keep all. You can't exegetically have your cake and eat it too (hint: watch bias and eisegesis).:mrt:
Response from (wood, hinges, knob, frame): "You have a demon".
Well, that clears us the exegesis of Eph. 4 and proves that we no longer have pastors, teachers, and evangelists in the local church either.
How could I have been so wrong? Must be the demon?
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Door
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The foundation was laid by the Apostles and Prophets, and confirmed by signs and wonders. Paul was the last Apostle. The foundation has been laid. There is no more foundation than the one which has been laid. All self-proclaimed "apostles" after Paul are false apostles, and those who claim that they are apostles, are disguising themselves as angels of light, just as Satan does. It is no coincidence that you teach another Jesus, and another gospel, and that you claim that apostles still exist, and that Aimiel claims to have special powers. It is all evidence that you are false teachers, and Godless deceivers.
“For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But let each man be careful how he builds upon it. For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” 1 Corinthians 3:11
“So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, having been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit. For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles- if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. And by referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power.”
Ephesians 2:19-3:7
“For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as it were to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. For I am the least of the apostles, who am not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.” 1 Corinthians 5:3-10
"For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men." 1 Corinthians 4:9
“The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.” 2 Corinthians 12:12
"And everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles." Acts 2:43
“And at the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were taking place among the people” Acts 5:12
“And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves, and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him, who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by that which every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.” Ephesians 4:11-16
"It is therefore necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us-beginning with the baptism of John, until the day that He was taken up from us-- one of these should become a witness with us of His resurrection." Acts 1:21-22
Qualifications and Purpose of an Apostle
- Witness of the resurrected Jesus
- Sent directly by Jesus
- Perform signs and wonders
- Gospel revealed to them
- Lay the foundation to establish the church
The Apostles and Prophets had been assigned directly by Jesus Himself, to lay the foundation. They received revelation directly from God and it was confirmed that God was with them through signs and wonders. In order for people to know what was from God, there had to be specific people who were chosen, and it had to be confirmed, so that the people would be able to distinguish what was from God, and what was from those who were bringing another message. Not everyone who mentioned the name of Jesus was an authority on what God wanted to reveal as the Gospel. Paul also points out that what He received from Jesus was directly from God the Father. To reject Paul’s authority, was to reject God.
"But what I am doing, I will continue to do, that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their deeds." 2 Corinthians 11:12-15
I agree with the teaching relative to foundational apostles and prophets. If you look up every use of the word, there were also subsequent apostolic and prophetic ministries in the early local churches that were similar, but not identical to these. So, your verses are fine and dandy, but not complete. Apostolic succession (Catholic/Mormon) is not what I am talking about. I am talking about a local or area church office that should be active through the centuries, but was not necessarily so. At times, the Church goes off track and truths need to be restored.
Why am I supposed to ignore you (when I interact it is civil and on topic), but you can always respond to me (good above, but often terrible name calling) in a harsh or reasonable way? If I had my way, they would let us police ourselves unless we go overboard. I value our interactions and the benefits of getting thicker skin (cold in Canada).
Why am I supposed to ignore you (when I interact it is civil and on topic), but you can always respond to me (good above, but often terrible name calling) in a harsh or reasonable way? If I had my way, they would let us police ourselves unless we go overboard. I value our interactions and the benefits of getting thicker skin (cold in Canada).
Aimiel
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No, I'm not. You say that I am, with no proof, whatsoever.
Who have you seen that is an apostle or prophet, lately? If God still gives the five-fold ministry gifts, which He said that He does, why don't you believe that verse?
That's the first thing you've said which would explain your behavior. You listen to yourself only.
I've read all my Bible, many times, son.
You don't understand yet what you've read, apparently.
The 'Building' which is Christ Jesus? Are you trying to say That Building is already complete? If so, where are the 'greater' works that Jesus spoke of?
The 'building' He refers to is The Body of Christ, which will never be 'complete' until all of us are one, in Him. As we learn truths (such as the foundational truth that God gives people the ministry giftings of apostle, prophet, pastor, evangelist or teacher as He wills) and let God bring these truths to light in us and in His Body we will begin to walk as He walked and take this earth by storm.
Door
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The proof is my previous post. Here
They do not exist, so none.
Now you are calling God a liar. No surprise there, you have already blasphemed the Holy Spirit.
You accused me of geeting the truth of the Bible from someone else, which I did not. You get your information from demons.
You're a liar.
Jesus is the corner stone. YOU are the one who has NEVER read the Bible.
"Have you not even read this Scripture: 'The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone"
"So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, having been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together is growing into a holy temple in the Lord"
The apostles and prophets recorded in the Bible performed them. Again, you have NEVER read the Bible. No one is doing greater works today. You are deceived and a pervert.
"And everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles."
"And at the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were taking place among the people; and they were all with one accord in Solomon's portico."
"The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles."
The apostles and prophets laid the foundation. It has already been laid. You are adding more foundation, which makes you a false prophet, and anti-Christ. You will go to hell. The building are those who have been built on the foundation.
The Apostles and Prophets had been assigned directly by Jesus Himself, to lay the foundation. They received revelation directly from God and it was confirmed that God was with them through signs and wonders. In order for people to know what was from God, there had to be specific people who were chosen, and it had to be confirmed, so that the people would be able to distinguish what was from God, and what was from those who were bringing another message. Not everyone who mentioned the name of Jesus was an authority on what God wanted to reveal as the Gospel. Paul also points out that what He received from Jesus was directly from God the Father. To reject Paul’s authority, was to reject God.
Your demon has deceived you into believing that you know God, but he is lying to you.
Aimiel
Well-known member
But the pastor, evangelist and teacher do? What basis do you cut out the two gifts from the promise of five which God made? It isn't in The Word of God, so I guess you just imagined that it is. That makes you a liar, not me and certainly not God.
I believe we've already established that it is you that is doing that, not those who believe Him when He says that He gives apostles and prophets.
The Holy Spirit, Who is perfectly capable of speaking to me or anyone else who will listen to Him, isn't a demon.
You're a liar.
I don't believe that any apostles or prophets ever walked on water (other than Peter, who stumbled) much less did any 'greater' works than Jesus did. :duh:
Yes, I have, liar.
I agree... however, when the whitewashed empty tombs such as yourself get out of the way and allow faith to bring us to The Lord's Will to hear and do as He wills, we will.
I'm not adding anything. You're taking away what The Lord says He has given. You want the building to fall over. Please buy a clue.
I've been assigned directly by Jesus to be a prophet.
Like the message you've been brought by someone not sent by God: "There are no apostles or prophets any more." That message isn't from God, it is from hell.
As rejecting prophets or apostles today could be considered; since God has sent them.
Door
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You are without a doubt the most ignorant backwoods hick on the planet.
I have not only NOT "cut" them from God's giving of those offices, but have shown you what God SAYS about their roles. YOU deny that they have the purpose that God gave them.
:sozo: THEY LAID THE FOUNDATION. THE FOUNDATION HAS BEEN LAID!
When building a building, and the foundation has been laid, you do not have MORE people coming in and adding to the foundation. When their work is completed, then those who build upon the foundation remain.
If, as you ignorantly, suggest, there are more apostles and prophets, then they would have new revelation (just like Joseph Smith claimed), and you would be required to add that information to the Bible so that we would have the whole foundation. God gave each a purpose, and the purpose of the apostles and prophets has been accomplished. We now have the Bible that reveals to us everything God wanted the apostles and prophets to reveal to us.
This is beyond your ability to comprehend, because you do not have the Spirit of God dwelling in you.
Aimiel
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Thank you.
Never did it. I simply don't presume that is their only duty.
I know. I don't desire to un-lay it, build a different building or change the floorplan; but God never said that apostles and prophets are over with or no longer gifted, no matter how deeply you've been mis-informed that they have.
If, as you've suggested, new revelation were their office, then you just might be right; but since their office is to do God's Will, not Door's, they are required to do His Will. He hasn't yet revealed all of His Mystery, but when He does, He will do so through His prophets.
No, it is still un-folding, as all of God's Eternal Purposes are. He will continue to reveal more Truth until we stand in His Presence, and see Him as He is.
We will spend eternity exploring the length, breadth, heights and depths of His Word. Exploring just one facet of Him would expire eternity before finding out all. What He has hidden in His Word only He knows. Revealing what He wills as He wills is His Business. He had words written down so that he that reads It may run with the knowledge, but He hasn't yet revealed even everything that is written in it, much less everything that He is going to do in and through us.
More like: it is way beyond your human capabilities, because the form of godliness that you have doesn't allow for God to have Supreme Power, even over His Own Word. He is able to conceal knowledge and wisdom in a single word, sentence, passage, chapter, book or even the entire Bible that men, struggling and studying their whole lives, cannot crack; and yet reveal His hidden wisdom to mere babes, as He wills. His ways are past finding out, and His Word contains many secrets that have yet to be revealed. If we overlook the office of the apostle and the prophet, because some simpleton / crackpot has decided that they aren't for today, we will miss out on God's best, because we're ignoring God's gifts to us. If we trust that He is capable of guiding His servants and what gifts He wants to give, we'll see His miracles and recognize signs and wonders for what He's designed them for: revelation of Truth, rather than suppression of Truth.
You may have read, Aimiel, but have you paid attention?
Aimiel
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You may have paid attention, Brandon, but have you understood?
Door
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There is nothing left to be said. You just said everything that anyone needs to hear.
Anyone on this site who claims to be a Christian, and claims to be your friend, who does not rebuke you and warn you that you are not a Christian, either does not care about you, or are not Christians themselves. You are not on the path that leads to life. You have been warned by me. Let's see if anyone else truly cares about you, or if they are as apathetic as I suspect.
Aimiel
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Why not? Is it that you believe you already know everything or that God has fully revealed everything? If the former then you have a lot to learn but if the latter, would you mind telling the rest of us the day and hour Jesus will return. We'd love to know. :chuckle:
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