ECT Acts realism vs MAD theoretics: Acts 16:3

[Right Divider]

Peter asks a question that Paul answers:

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Question: What will the end be for those who don't obey the "gospel of God"?

• What is "the house of God"?
• What is "the gospel of God"?
• Peter is a one of the TWELVE apostles that will judge the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.

2 Thessalonians 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Answer: flaming fire. The "gospel of God" in Peter is synonymous with the "gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" in Paul's writings.

There are many gospels in the Bible.

The gospel of the kingdom is NOT the same as the gospel of the grace of God.

Even a child can understand that.

 

[SimpleMan77]

• What is "the house of God"?
• What is "the gospel of God"?
• Peter is a one of the TWELVE apostles that will judge the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.

There are many gospels in the Bible.

The gospel of the kingdom is NOT the same as the gospel of the grace of God.

Even a child can understand that.

Peter clarifies. "If it first begin at US". Paul concurs - we are the house/temple of God.

Paul uses "the Gospel of God", "the Gospel of the Lord Jesus", "the Gospel of Christ" and simply "the Gospel" interchangeably.

You never hear of the "Gospel of the Kingdom" mentioned after Calvary.

However you do hear Paul repeatedly say we are currently in the Kingdom of God while he's preaching the Gospel.


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[Right Divider]

Peter clarifies. "If it first begin at US". Paul concurs - we are the house/temple of God.

Wrong... the house of God was Israel.

Paul's ministry was NOT simply a continuation of the ministry of the TWELVE apostles that will judge the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.

Paul uses "the Gospel of God", "the Gospel of the Lord Jesus", "the Gospel of Christ" and simply "the Gospel" interchangeably.

They are not used "interchangeably". Paul's uses them at different times and in different ways.

You never hear of the "Gospel of the Kingdom" mentioned after Calvary.

And your point is? The kingdom that was at hand is now cancelled?

However you do hear Paul repeatedly say we are currently in the Kingdom of God while he's preaching the Gospel.

Your understanding of the entire plan of God is sorely lacking.

 

[SimpleMan77]

Wrong... the house of God was Israel.

Argue with Paul. Paul thinks we Gentiles, as fellow citizens now with Jewish believers, are now the temple/house of God.

Ephesians 2:19-22
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an HOLY TEMPLE in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

I could similarly disprove your other points with simple scripture, but I don't think this conversation is getting us anywhere, so I will withdraw myself after this post.


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[1Mind1Spirit]

Acts 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

• What is "the house of God"?
• What is "the gospel of God"?
• Peter is a one of the TWELVE apostles that will judge the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.

There are many gospels in the Bible.

The gospel of the kingdom is NOT the same as the gospel of the grace of God.

Even a child can understand that.

What Gospel was Paul saved under/by?

Was it different to the Gospel the church of Acts 2 was saved under?

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Acts 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

MAD would not understand that because they think the one who was in the world which lightens everyone who comes into the world, was/is Jesus.(john ch 1)

LA

 

[Right Divider]

Argue with Paul. Paul thinks we Gentiles, as fellow citizens now with Jewish believers, are now the temple/house of God.

TWO different CONTEXTS. Folks like you always try to BLUR everything together in your vain attempt to make it say what you want it to say.

Ephesians 2:19-22
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an HOLY TEMPLE in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

I could similarly disprove your other points with simple scripture, but I don't think this conversation is getting us anywhere, so I will withdraw myself after this post.

You can twist more scripture if you'd like; and you've said that before.

God chose Israel to be His special people on the earth.

Deut 7:6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(7:6) For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth.
​

Deut 14:2 (AKJV/PCE)​

(14:2) For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that [are] upon the earth. ​

The fact that they have failed many times does NOT mean that God has abandoned them. He will restore them.

The body of Christ on the other hand, is not a people of the earth.

Phil 3:20-21 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: (3:21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
​

Eph 2:4-9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, (2:5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved (2:6) And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: (2:7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.​

Col 3:1-2 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. (3:2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
​

You keep trying to make it all the same thing; it's not.

 

[SimpleMan77]

MADists place a huge importance on Acts 3:19-21, but their use of it is FULL of their own faulty assumptions. Here is the verses, as they read them, using the KJV (I'll use this version because they make a big deal about it). Here's how they read it, with the concepts they add in ALL CAPS:

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out SOMEDAY IN THE FUTURE, when the times of refreshing shall come IN A FEW YEARS from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ IN A FEW YEARS, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things WHICH CAN ONLY BE A FEW YEARS, ONCE ISRAEL ACCEPTS THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Now, here's commentary on what Peter was really saying, which is completely consistent with the message he preached in Acts 2, and with the gospel that Paul preached.

Acts 3:19-21
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out (through baptism for the remission of sins), when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (which, according to Isaiah is the receiving of the Holy Ghost - even if "when" is the correct word here it is absolutely possible for it to mean immediately after conversion. "When" can mean in one minute or 2,500 years); And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began (again, THERE IS NO TIMELINE HERE. The times if the restitution of all things isn't here yet)


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[Lighthouse]

Because it was converted Pharisees who were teaching things that Peter and James were not teaching

Evidence?

The Gospel does have a way of not needing the Law as Judaism did. That's why there are many accusations about that, although Paul shows he upholds it, as in Rom 3:31 or the circ of Titus. But Paul is not a Judaizer, nor a zealot, and we know from Phil 3 what he says about his previous Pharisaism.

Why was Titus circumcised?

 

[Lighthouse]

Matthew 2-:22:23

 

[Danoh]

MADists place a huge importance on Acts 3:19-21, but their use of it is FULL of their own faulty assumptions. Here is the verses, as they read them, using the KJV (I'll use this version because they make a big deal about it). Here's how they read it, with the concepts they add in ALL CAPS:

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out SOMEDAY IN THE FUTURE, when the times of refreshing shall come IN A FEW YEARS from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ IN A FEW YEARS, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things WHICH CAN ONLY BE A FEW YEARS, ONCE ISRAEL ACCEPTS THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Now, here's commentary on what Peter was really saying, which is completely consistent with the message he preached in Acts 2, and with the gospel that Paul preached.

Acts 3:19-21
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out (through baptism for the remission of sins), when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (which, according to Isaiah is the receiving of the Holy Ghost - even if "when" is the correct word here it is absolutely possible for it to mean immediately after conversion. "When" can mean in one minute or 2,500 years); And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began (again, THERE IS NO TIMELINE HERE. The times if the restitution of all things isn't here yet)


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Very, very few MADs - both KJVO MADs and non KJVO MADs - hold the view that the Twelve and their fellow converts had to wait until the return of Christ to have their sins blotted out.

Very, very few hold some of the other views the majority of MADs on TOL continually represent as if all MADs hold to their views.

Very, very few...

If you were actually any good at noting distinctions between things, Simpleman, you would see that within the posts of the various MADs who post on here.

But you are an amateur.

An amateur is ever in need of having such distinctions between posters pointed out to him.

 

[SimpleMan77]

Very, very few MADs - both KJVO MADs and non KJVO MADs - hold the view that the Twelve and their fellow converts had to wait until the return of Christ to have their sins blotted out.

Very, very few hold some of the other views the majority of MADs on TOL continually represent as if all MADs hold to their views.

Very, very few...

If you were actually any good at noting distinctions between things, Simpleman, you would see that within the posts of the various MADs who post on here.

But you are an amateur.

An amateur is ever in need of having such distinctions between posters pointed out to him.

You're correct that lumped together a lot of people in my post. I was wrong in that


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[Interplanner]

Evidence?


Why was Titus circumcised?

I don't believe it was because of a doctrine that Paul believed. I think it was strategic: to get him the audience with Roman officials through controversy with Judaism. And you have to pick your fights.

These are reasons why you don't generate doctrine from unfolding historic records like Acts, unless it is clearly supported in the doctrinal part of a letter.

 

[Danoh]

I don't believe it was because of a doctrine that Paul believed. I think it was strategic: to get him the audience with Roman officials through controversy with Judaism. And you have to pick your fights.

These are reasons why you don't generate doctrine from unfolding historic records like Acts, unless it is clearly supported in the doctrinal part of a letter.

Yo, knucklehead, the passage asserts that Titus did NOT get circumcised.

Galatians 2:3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 2:5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Try investing actual time in the passages - put away your books "make a thing up as you go..."

 

[Right Divider]

Matthew 20:22-23 :cigar:

 

[Danoh]

Matthew 20:22-23 :cigar:

Yep :thumb:

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

You're correct that lumped together a lot of people in my post. I was wrong in that


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Not really, they have all distorted those supposed proof texts to support their belief in MAD doctrine.

 

[Interplanner]

Matthew 20:22-23 :cigar:

The passage is true in Christ. I think you think it needs an Israel-in-its-land to be true. Not.

 

[Right Divider]

The passage is true in Christ. I think you think it needs an Israel-in-its-land to be true. Not.

What an ignorant person you are!

Matt 20:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)​

(20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father. ​

That does THESE VERSES have to do with "in the land".

You are such a dummy.

That wasn't what we were talking about; but your tiny little mind has a such a FIXATION on some things.