ECT Acts 13-Interplanner's Continuous Rebellion

SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
After being corrected over and over, why does IP continually pervert the scriptures and make
"the promise" in this passage into "all of the promises"? Because he has an agenda, and is dishonest.


Acts 13
13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
13:25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.
13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
13:27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
13:28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.
13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.
13:30 But God raised him from the dead:
13:31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
 
D

Danoh

New member
SaulToPaul said:
After being corrected over and over, why does IP continually pervert the scriptures and make
"the promise" in this passage into "all of the promises"? Because he has an agenda, and is dishonest...
Click to expand...

That cracks me up, bro - it really does :chuckle:

One aspect of what is behind your conclusions about the brother himself just because his understanding so differs from our own, is how married you yourselves are - not only to your own errors, but to skirting them, and or taking personal offence, and going all hostile, when they are brought up.

Nevertheless, Rom. 5:8
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Danoh said:
That cracks me up, bro - it really does :chuckle:

One aspect of what is behind your conclusions about the brother himself just because his understanding so differs from our own, is how married you yourselves are - not only to your own errors, but to skirting them, and or taking personal offence, and going all hostile, when they are brought up.

Nevertheless, Rom. 5:8
Click to expand...

huh?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Way to go, you finally went proactive. So I read one.

KJV or not, you don't handle causative expressions well. In Acts 13:33 the fulfillment is the resurrecting of Christ. There is no LITERAL promise that this would happen. It is the arrival or conclusion of them all; this is where the whole business was going so that the mission of Christ to the nations would burst forth.

At some point, STP, you have to really get into the mind of the writer, not just the words.\

Many people have said that there is no obvious connection between Ps 2 and the resurrection (the next verse of ch 13). But that is how CHRIST connected them. The completion of all things promised to Israel is in the establishing of Christ as the Son. Which has happened; he is enthroned, Acts 2:30, Eph 1:20.

To show you again how mindless and simplistic your objection is, the NOUN promise is not in the text! It is the participial THINGS PROMISED.

As for 15:17, you have a similar problem seeing the causes or the cause relations. The rebuilding of the tent was to allow the nations to seek the Lord. That seeking was going on right then in the discussion of the council because it was the real event they were dealing with. No one there is talking about X000 years in the future. The Greek 'hina' is not complicated at all: "so that..." The rebuilding happened so that the Gentiles would enter, and that entering was known for ages.

What derails most of D'ism here is 'After this I will return...' because little green lights are set off in their minds that that has to be about the 2ND COMING. It is merely post exile. It is not a literal tent. Nothing in the quote is, actually. It is only a statement of humility. Christ the humble tent that welcomes. It is a return of sorts. It is a 'coming to you,' a visitation, and this time it had to be 'recognized' as such, Lk 19:44. Ie, it had to be discerned.

So to PJ, I say, the reason I work at this is there is such fundamental misunderstanding of what is going on because D'ism is above all hostile to context and background if it means losing 2P2P.
 
Last edited:
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Just so we understand the overall working situation of the forum: the object is to arrive at the meaning of the Word. I long ago realized STP was in no position to be some kind of guide or leader, so his saying he was 'correcting' something is his vanity to work out. You have to have linguistic or background reasons in order for something to stand.
 
D

Danoh

New member
SaulToPaul said:
Nah. It's a singular promise.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about that, rather, about the fact that you do the same thing with other passages that you are asserting he has done with those in Acts 13.

See, just as I have tried to point out to you at other times - you believed what you UNDERSTOOD I'd meant - NOT what I'd actually meant.

Obviously you also do that with various Scriptures.

Thus, my follow up to your "huh?" - 'see what I mean - your (words) study approach is off.'

Prov. 27:17

Nevertheless,

Rom. 5:8
 
Tambora

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
SaulToPaul said:
Nah. It's a singular promise.
Click to expand...
51bad55dd6b28577b4340955ed0a442c_w41_h37.gif
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Tambora said:
51bad55dd6b28577b4340955ed0a442c_w41_h37.gif
Click to expand...





It's not really a matter of the expression; there is nothing in any prophecy that says the resurrection of Christ was going to have the finality that Paul says it has here. That's because it provides everything through Christ or in Christ. The days of literalism are over. It is the forgiveness of sins--justification--and it is the mission of that afterwards.

No other mention is made of the land here, and given the circumstances over in Judea, I'm not surprised.

You people need to show why there is an outstanding need after this has taken place to have another go in Judea. It's irrelevant and it is not what the NT looks for when you read Gal, Col, Hebrews about the role of Judaism. That is what I have never understood about your view and you never talk about it. Like you are afraid something will fall apart. it will. So you just keep dictating it on scant evidence and on the notion that 'God would be a liar' inspite of bringing Israel back after exile.

It's not a singular promise, it is a visionary one that changed the world and was meant to continue doing so.

What or 'That which' God promised. 'Promise' is in a verb form. But in a history of Israel where the land and the kingdom have been covered--served their purpose--and in view of there not being a specific 'resurrection' promise, he is obviously saying it is all done through the resurrection.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Show us where the NT is as passionate as you are about a land promise, and why it would make sense to do so after the colossal 2nd failure of Israel (the two destructions).

Choose carefully; your fav in Heb 8 doesn't count because all it means is the reconciliation of the two tribe groups.

Rom 11 was about what had taken place in Paul's time; the Redeemer who came to Zion and took away sins.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Ie, how does the resurrection of Christ change all promise so that it makes it come true? It's the 'being a light to the nations' in v47. That's the 'all nations will be blessed in you (your Seed).'

That is what was waiting to take place. It was now game on and Israel was resisting--often by making a fight for their land!
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Interplanner said:
Ie, how does the resurrection of Christ change all promise so that it makes it come true? It's the 'being a light to the nations' in v47. That's the 'all nations will be blessed in you (your Seed).'

That is what was waiting to take place. It was now game on and Israel was resisting--often by making a fight for their land!
Click to expand...

Land = inheritance.

The inheritance of Jesus Christ and His church is the heavenly city. Hebrews 11:16; Galatians 4:26; Revelation Chapters 21& 22.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Nang said:
Land = inheritance.

The inheritance of Jesus Christ and His church is the heavenly city. Hebrews 11:16; Galatians 4:26; Revelation Chapters 21& 22.
Click to expand...




Well then he won't be in the land as they have been saying because it's not his inheritance.
 
steko

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
GOD promises specific land to Abram:

Gen 13:14* And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:*
Gen 13:15* For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.*
Gen 13:16* And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.*
Gen 13:17* Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.


Specific land which GOD promised to Abram/Abraham not received yet:


Act 7:2* And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,*
Act 7:3* And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.*
Act 7:4* Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.**
Act 7:5* And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.



Specific land which GOD promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob not received, yet:


Heb 11:8* By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.*
Heb 11:9* By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10* For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.**


Specific land promised by GOD to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob still not received, yet.

Some would have us believe that GOD reneged on His promise to Abraham but it doesn't really matter.

Or some would have us believe that GOD didn't really mean what He specified to Abraham and that He actually changed the clear meaning of what He said.

Some would have us believe that GOD didn't really mean the land which He clearly specified and that He was referring to a different land.

Some would have us believe that GOD didn't mean land at all but that instead of land He meant a particular man...not land.

How is one to believe what GOD says if we are not to simply believe what GOD says?
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
steko said:
GOD promises specific land to Abram:

Gen 13:14* And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:*
Gen 13:15* For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.*
Gen 13:16* And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.*
Gen 13:17* Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee.


Specific land which GOD promised to Abram/Abraham not received yet:


Act 7:2* And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,*
Act 7:3* And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.*
Act 7:4* Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.**
Act 7:5* And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.



Specific land which GOD promised to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob not received, yet:


Heb 11:8* By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.*
Heb 11:9* By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10* For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.**


Specific land promised by GOD to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob still not received, yet.

Some would have us believe that GOD reneged on His promise to Abraham but it doesn't really matter.

Or some would have us believe that GOD didn't really mean what He specified to Abraham and that He actually changed the clear meaning of what He said.

Some would have us believe that GOD didn't really mean the land which He clearly specified and that He was referring to a different land.

Some would have us believe that GOD didn't mean land at all but that instead of land He meant a particular man...not land.

How is one to believe what GOD says if we are not to simply believe what GOD says?
Click to expand...

The land promises were fulfilled in the days of Joshua, but Abraham's faith rested in God's promise of a spiritual/heavenly city. Hebrews 11:10-16
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top