ECT Acronyms for those debating MAD

[Interplanner]

As per usual, you are way off base. Wrong again

PJ, at some point you have to find some agreement. All those people were alive at that time. all those verbs were present tense. Maybe there are distant future scoffers. Payne was, but you guys prefer him over Holford, so what can I say? But in that passage? No. He's talking about things going on right then.

 

[patrick jane]

PJ, at some point you have to find some agreement. All those people were alive at that time. all those verbs were present tense. Maybe there are distant future scoffers. Payne was, but you guys prefer him over Holford, so what can I say? But in that passage? No. He's talking about things going on right then.

Those were NOT the "last days"

 

[tetelestai]

As per usual, you are way off base. Wrong again

Jude quoted Peter's prophecy from 2 Peter 3:3

Peter's prophecy in 2 Peter 3:3 was fulfilled during Jude's lifetime. Jude makes that clear in verse 19 of the epistle of Jude.

Verse 18 of Jude quotes 2 Peter 3:3 in the past tense.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

As per usual, you are way off base. Wrong again

I placed TeT on EGGNORE. Personally, I can't stand the guy. That's why I'm sitting down.

 

[tetelestai]

Those were NOT the "last days"

They were the last days of the Old Covenant.

The Old Covenant came to an end in 70AD.

 

[Interplanner]

They were the last days of the Old Covenant.

The Old Covenant came to an end in 70AD.

Or more. There are several indications that the whole generation was the end of the world. Especially in Paul through Luke. Paul in I Cor 7 about marriage--of all things! ( Well, it does make sense emotionally). I'm quite sure the apostles believed everything was over with right after the DofJ. But God delayed.

 

[tetelestai]

Or more. There are several indications that the whole generation was the end of the world. Especially in Paul through Luke. Paul in I Cor 7 about marriage--of all things! ( Well, it does make sense emotionally). I'm quite sure the apostles believed everything was over with right after the DofJ. But God delayed.

I disagree.

The writer of Hebrews understood that once the OC was gone for good, there was going to be a time that the NC was fully in place.

(Heb 8:13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Interplanner]

I disagree.

The writer of Hebrews understood that once the OC was gone for good, there was going to be a time that the NC was fully in place.

(Heb 8:13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So why pray 'marana tha'? And why the delicate advice of I Cor 7--whether you were considering marriage, business, etc.?

 

[tetelestai]

So why pray 'marana tha'?

Because the Lord was coming soon.

(Rev 22:7) "Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll."

And why the delicate advice of I Cor 7--whether you were considering marriage, business, etc.?

Paul called it a "present crisis".

(1 Cor 7:26) Because of the present crisis,...

So, what was the "present crisis"?

Answer: Not only were the Jews persecuting the Christians, the Romans were also about to start persecuting the Christians.

 

[Interplanner]

Because the Lord was coming soon.

(Rev 22:7) "Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll."





Paul called it a "present crisis".

(1 Cor 7:26) Because of the present crisis,...

So, what was the "present crisis"?

Answer: Not only were the Jews persecuting the Christians, the Romans were also about to start persecuting the Christians.

v29. The time is short. We know from Peter that God delayed the end. That assumes they had the belief it was going to end soon, planned to end soon.

 

[tetelestai]

We know from Peter that God delayed the end.

You keep saying that, but I have showed you that Jude proves you wrong.

There was no delay.

Jesus made it clear that "this generation" would still be alive when all the things in Matt 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13 took place.

 

[Interplanner]

You keep saying that, but I have showed you that Jude proves you wrong.

There was no delay.

Jesus made it clear that "this generation" would still be alive when all the things in Matt 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13 took place.

Doesn't an extension by definition mean that an end was planned earlier? 2 Pet 3:9, 15.

2 Th 2 was written because it was all considered so soon that some thought it had happened.

Rev 1: at hand, immediately, soon...

 

[tetelestai]

Doesn't an extension by definition mean that an end was planned earlier? 2 Pet 3:9, 15.

What extension?

2 Th 2 was written because it was all considered so soon that some thought it had happened.

The Thessalonians thought they had missed it, but Paul makes it clear to them that the Great Rebellion had to happen first. The Great Rebellion began in 66AD.

BTW, 2 Thess 2 is a death knell to the rapture theory.

If the Thessalonians thought they had missed the rapture, then why wouldn't they wonder why Paul was still there if they had missed it?

 

[whitestone]

Do you have a specific text to discuss?

yes thank you, in Revelation 13:15 KJV those that were killed for not using the beast money was this fulfilled between ad66-70 when the Jews printed their own money?

 

[Interplanner]

yes thank you, in Revelation 13:15 KJV those that were killed for not using the beast money was this fulfilled between ad66-70 when the Jews printed their own money?

Thanks for making the case. They were killed for not using Roman money.

But not all passages in the Rev are about Rome vs the zealots as though the zealots were a righteous remnant. Christ had taught to honor the person imaged on Rome's coins.

 

[musterion]

Everything Christ Jesus said that would happen to the Jews, Jerusalem, and the temple, did in fact happen from 66AD - 70AD.

Everything He said would happen did NOT happen in that time frame. The only way you are able to convince yourself that it did happen is by spiritualizing away inconvenient truths, just as IP does with Luke 19:44. That's rank unbelief. Not surprising since preterism is at its root a Catholic doctrine.

You're both pharisees, making God's Word of no effect in favor of your human tradition.

http://bereanadvocate.blogspot.com/search/label/70 AD

 

[whitestone]

Thanks for making the case. They were killed for not using Roman money.

But not all passages in the Rev are about Rome vs the zealots as though the zealots were a righteous remnant. Christ had taught to honor the person imaged on Rome's coins.

thats odd though if this is so because in the scripture there are those who are killed for not worshiping the image of the beast. Also though the wrath of God is poured out on those who receive the mark/worship image ect. ,,,,,

So if it is so that they(the Jews in the siege)"did not" use the money of the beast,and did not worship the image why are they having the wrath of God poured out on them when they refused the mark/image?

I'm asking this because if they refused the money of the beast and refused to worship the image of the beast that would mean they were obeying God,not disobeying.

 

[Interplanner]

thats odd though if this is so because in the scripture there are those who are killed for not worshiping the image of the beast. Also though the wrath of God is poured out on those who receive the mark/worship image ect. ,,,,,

So if it is so that they(the Jews in the siege)"did not" use the money of the beast,and did not worship the image why are they having the wrath of God poured out on them when they refused the mark/image?

I'm asking this because if they refused the money of the beast and refused to worship the image of the beast that would mean they were obeying God,not disobeying.

I don't expect everything in the Rev to settle out (I've calculated personnel and materiel in %s and stopped when it got to -275% in ch 9, as I recall...). It is written to pastorally care for those who have lost friends, families in the trauma.

One option, however, in this case, is that the 'beast' in mind is the zealot leader in his rebellion against Rome, making everyone use his money. There are a number of labels used by the NT for this guy: the abomination that desolates, the son of perdition, the wicked one, etc. I dont' know why the beast would be beyond the pale.

Ie, it is not the "Jews in the siege" and their not using the Roman money. It is the Christians during the siege and their not using the wicked one's money. That is, the ones who did not get out.

The title for Mt24A is often 'the Little Apocalypse.' That's fine. But if a person switches tracks between Christians and Jews, it can get murky. I don't see how Mt24A (like Mt10) can be about the Jews in general. That would be a 2P2P mistake, and popping its head in at the wrong time too.

 

[tetelestai]

Everything He said would happen did NOT happen in that time frame. The only way you are able to convince yourself that it did happen is by spiritualizing away inconvenient truths, just as IP does with Luke 19:44. That's rank unbelief. Not surprising since preterism is at its root a Catholic doctrine.

You're both pharisees, making God's Word of no effect in favor of your human tradition.

http://bereanadvocate.blogspot.com/search/label/70 AD

Wrong again mysteryboy

(Luke 19:44) They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

Apparently you don't understand what the word "you" means.

Christ Jesus said "they will dash YOU to the ground, YOU and the children within your walls.

That's exactly what happened in 70AD.

Then Christ Jesus says: "Because YOU did not recognize the time of God's coming to YOU".

Christ Jesus wasn't speaking of a future people. He was specifically speaking to His Jewish contemporaries who rejected Him in 30AD.

You need to let go of the false teachings of men you follow, and start believing what the Bible says.

 

[tetelestai]

So if it is so that they(the Jews in the siege)"did not" use the money of the beast,and did not worship the image why are they having the wrath of God poured out on them when they refused the mark/image?

For the love of money is the root of all evil. That's why.

Prior to the siege, the Jews loved Roman money, and forsake the word of God because of their love of money.

By the time 66AD came, and the Jews had started minting their own money, it was too late.

(Luke 16:14) The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus.