Abortion is Against God's Law, Illegal.

[Jacob]

Shalom.

Today is Chamishi, 11-2.

Abortion is against God's Law, illegal, even the cases of adultery, rape, and incest.

Also, for capital offenses one or both of those involved should die according to Torah Law.

And, in cases of rape marriage may be a reasonable solution dependent upon the existence of a perpetrator who would either die for his or her crime or be married if simply responsible for something consensual outside of marriage.

So, no abortion at all. It is possible that the woman would be put to death and her unborn child would die.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Jacob]

As for the betrothed, engaged.

Exodus 22:16-17 NASB - 16 "If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged, and lies with her, he must pay a dowry for her to be his wife. 17 "If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the dowry for virgins.

Deuteronomy 22:13-30 NASB - 13 "If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her, 14 and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, 'I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,' 15 then the girl's father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl's virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 "The girl's father shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her; 17 and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, "I did not find your daughter a virgin." But this is the evidence of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. 18 "So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him, 19 and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl's father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20 "But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, 21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you. 22 "If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel. 23 "If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor's wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you. 25 "But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26 "But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27 "When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her. 28 "If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days. 30 "A man shall not take his father's wife so that he will not uncover his father's skirt.

Exodus 22:16-17 NKJV - 16 "If a man entices a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies with her, he shall surely pay the bride-price for her [to be] his wife. 17 "If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money according to the bride-price of virgins.

Deuteronomy 22:13-30 NKJV - 13 "If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, 14 "and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, 'I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she [was] not a virgin,' 15 "then the father and mother of the young woman shall take and bring out [the evidence of] the young woman's virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 "And the young woman's father shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man as wife, and he detests her. 17 'Now he has charged her with shameful conduct, saying, "I found your daughter [was] not a virgin," and yet these [are the evidences of] my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. 18 "Then the elders of that city shall take that man and punish him; 19 "and they shall fine him one hundred [shekels] of silver and give [them] to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name on a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20 "But if the thing is true, [and evidences of] virginity are not found for the young woman, 21 "then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done a disgraceful thing in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house. So you shall put away the evil from among you. 22 "If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die--the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel. 23 "If a young woman [who is] a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 "then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor's wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you. 25 "But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 "But you shall do nothing to the young woman; [there is] in the young woman no sin [deserving] of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so [is] this matter. 27 "For he found her in the countryside, [and] the betrothed young woman cried out, but [there was] no one to save her. 28 "If a man finds a young woman [who is] a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, 29 "then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days. 30 "A man shall not take his father's wife, nor uncover his father's bed.

SHEMOT/EXODUS 22:15-16
15 If a man shall seduce a virgin who was not betrothed and lie with her, he shall provide her with a marriage contract as his wife. 16 If her father refuses to give her to him, he shall weigh out silver according to the marriage contract of the virgins.

DEVARIM/DEUTERONOMY 22:13-29
13 If a man marries a wife, and comes to her and hates her, 14 and he makes a wanton accusation against her, spreading a bad name against her, and he said, "I married this woman, and I came near to her and I did not find signs of virginity on her." 15 Then the father of the girl and her mother should take and bring proofs of the girl's virginity to the elders of the city, to the gate. 16 The father of the girl should say to the elders, "I gave my daughter to this man as a wife, and he hated her. 17 Now, behold! he made a wanton accusation against her, saying, 'I did not find signs of virginity on your daughter' - but these are the signs of virginity of my daughter!" And they should spread out the sheet before the elders of the city.
18 The elders of the city shall take that man and punish him. 19 And they shall fine him one hundred silver [shekels] and give them to the father of the girl, for he had issued a slander against a virgin of Israel, and she shall remain with him as a wife; he can not divorce her all his days.
20 But if this matter was true - signs of virginity were not found on the girl - 21 the they shall take the girl to the entrance of her father's house and the people of her city shall pelt her with stones and she shall die, for she had committed an outrage in Israel, to commit adultery in her father's house, and you shall remove the evil from your midst.
22 If a man will be found lying with a woman who is married to a husband, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman and the woman; and you shall remove the evil from Israel.
23 If there will be a virgin girl who is betrothed to a man, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall take them both to the gate of that city and pelt them with stones and they shall die; the girl because of the fact that she did not cry out in the city, and the man because of the fact that he afflicted the wife of his fellow; and you shall remove the evil from your midst.
25 But if it is in the field that the man will find the betrothed girl, and the man will seize her and lie with her, only the man who lies with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the girl, for the girl has committed no capital sin, for like a man who rises up against his fellow and kills him, so is this thing; 27 for he found her in the field, the betrothed girl cried out, but she had no savior.
28 If a man will find a virgin maiden who was not betrothed, and takes hold of her and lies with her, and they are discovered, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give the father of the girl fifty silver [shekels], and she shall become his wife, because he afflicted her; he cannot divorce her all his days.

I have presented this to you for the person who has not been married, and either is not engaged or is engaged. If a person is betrothed or engaged there are special protections for them related to or preceding their marriage.

Hebrews 13:4 NKJV - Marriage [is] honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Hebrews 13:4 NASB - Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Stripe]

It is possible that the woman would be put to death and her unborn child would die.

This situation would only arise in a case of adultery, and I would not condone it.

 

[oatmeal]

Shalom.

Today is Chamishi, 11-2.

Abortion is against God's Law, illegal, even the cases of adultery, rape, and incest.

Also, for capital offenses one or both of those involved should die according to Torah Law.

And, in cases of rape marriage may be a reasonable solution dependent upon the existence of a perpetrator who would either die for his or her crime or be married if simply responsible for something consensual outside of marriage.

So, no abortion at all. It is possible that the woman would be put to death and her unborn child would die.

Shalom.

Jacob

When did the first man become a living soul?

Genesis 2:7 tells us.

Is there any scripture that "updates" that truth?

No.

Even as the last breath is the end of life, the first breath is the beginning of a life.

A human living soul breathes air not water.

Living humans die from breathing water.

Abortion is not murder.

 

[Jacob]

This situation would only arise in a case of adultery, and I would not condone it.

Shalom.

Today is Shishi, 11-3.

What about incest? Does it matter if a daughter was complicit or caused her father to have sex with her? This is different from a father raping her daughter. But what does God's law say? Incest could be a brother and sister. A mother and a son. And there are other cases of incest as well.

As for rape, if a woman, young woman, or girl is engaged, if this was in the city or outside of the city, if she cried out or not, if she was a willing party, if the sex was consensual, etc.... If she was engaged it is as adultery as I understand it. Some might argue that she was not yet married, but the Law reads as is.

Are you saying that in the case of adultery you understand that this is the case but you would not or do not approve of it? This is God's law! Perhaps you would not approve to look good, for emotional reasons, or to not feel bad for having not stood up for the part of the situation in which there is innocence, or rather falling into something rather than intending to break God's Holy Law. Willful disobedience is disobedience. Not obeying God's Law is disobedience, transgression, and sin.

Is it true that the only case in which a woman would die, or the woman and her unborn child would both die, is when the woman committed adultery? Because an engaged woman would mean that the man to whom she was not engaged should die, and engaged or not what if she did or did not cry out and if it was in the city or not in the city? And those who were not engaged are supposed to get married. This may be so long as the woman's father, or whatever situation it is, allows it or if she will have him, etc... but we must read God's law and not rely on emotions to save us (from a permanent decision choice or result coming from a temporary pleasure or getting caught up in something or choosing to do something (have sex) for whatever reason two unmarried people would come up with) after we have been disobedient to God. Why do we say, if she will have him (different from the choice of a bride or wife)? Is this what God's Law says?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Jacob]

When did the first man become a living soul?

Genesis 2:7 tells us.

Is there any scripture that "updates" that truth?

No.

Even as the last breath is the end of life, the first breath is the beginning of a life.

A human living soul breathes air not water.

Living humans die from breathing water.

Abortion is not murder.

Shalom.

Today is Shishi, 11-3.

Abortion is murder. It is taking an innocent unborn child's life.

What is not murder is when an adultress and her unborn child die according to the Law (remember what she must go through if and when her husband suspects her to have been unfaithful).

I do not know all the things you are talking about with your sensibilities.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[eleos]

If it's not murder .... then what is it?

 

[eleos]

When did the first man become a living soul?

Genesis 2:7 tells us.

Is there any scripture that "updates" that truth?

No.

Even as the last breath is the end of life, the first breath is the beginning of a life.

A human living soul breathes air not water.

Living humans die from breathing water.

Abortion is not murder.

It it's not murder than what is it?

 

[Stripe]

Are you saying that in the case of adultery you understand that this is the case but you would not or do not approve of it?

I was responding specifically to your statement — which I quoted — that: "It is possible that the woman would be put to death and her unborn child would die."

A woman would only be in line for the death penalty in the case of adultery. If she was found to be pregnant, some accommodation would have to be found.

 

[beameup]

Abortion is against God's Law, illegal, even the cases of adultery, rape, and incest.
Shalom.

Jacob

You actually might get the chance to live under the Law if the Tribulation isn't too far off and you survive it.

Personally, I will remain under Grace and be evacuated from the earth, to be with the Lord, before that happens.

*PS there are 613 Commandments and 200+ are presently impossible to observe.

 

[Jacob]

I was responding specifically to your statement — which I quoted — that: "It is possible that the woman would be put to death and her unborn child would die."

A woman would only be in line for the death penalty in the case of adultery. If she was found to be pregnant, some accommodation would have to be found.

Shalom.

Today is Rishon, 11-5.

I believe that the following from the Torah will help you to fully understand the situation. Either you have not considered the woman who is engaged or this does fall under the commandment to not commit adultery or for you falls under the commandment to not commit adultery. Many believe that of the 613 commandments in the Torah those that are not the Ten Commandments fall under the Ten Commandments, are derived from them or are their extension or detail.

Deuteronomy 22:13-30 NKJV - 13 "If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, 14 "and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, 'I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she [was] not a virgin,' 15 "then the father and mother of the young woman shall take and bring out [the evidence of] the young woman's virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 "And the young woman's father shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man as wife, and he detests her. 17 'Now he has charged her with shameful conduct, saying, "I found your daughter [was] not a virgin," and yet these [are the evidences of] my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. 18 "Then the elders of that city shall take that man and punish him; 19 "and they shall fine him one hundred [shekels] of silver and give [them] to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name on a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20 "But if the thing is true, [and evidences of] virginity are not found for the young woman, 21 "then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done a disgraceful thing in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house. So you shall put away the evil from among you. 22 "If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die--the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel. 23 "If a young woman [who is] a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 "then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor's wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you. 25 "But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 "But you shall do nothing to the young woman; [there is] in the young woman no sin [deserving] of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so [is] this matter. 27 "For he found her in the countryside, [and] the betrothed young woman cried out, but [there was] no one to save her. 28 "If a man finds a young woman [who is] a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, 29 "then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days. 30 "A man shall not take his father's wife, nor uncover his father's bed.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Stripe]

Shalom.

Today is Rishon, 11-5.

I believe that the following from the Torah will help you to fully understand the situation. Either you have not considered the woman who is engaged or this does fall under the commandment to not commit adultery or for you falls under the commandment to not commit adultery. Many believe that of the 613 commandments in the Torah those that are not the Ten Commandments fall under the Ten Commandments, are derived from them or are their extension or detail.

Deuteronomy 22:13-30 NKJV - 13 "If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and detests her, 14 "and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings a bad name on her, and says, 'I took this woman, and when I came to her I found she [was] not a virgin,' 15 "then the father and mother of the young woman shall take and bring out [the evidence of] the young woman's virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 "And the young woman's father shall say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter to this man as wife, and he detests her. 17 'Now he has charged her with shameful conduct, saying, "I found your daughter [was] not a virgin," and yet these [are the evidences of] my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. 18 "Then the elders of that city shall take that man and punish him; 19 "and they shall fine him one hundred [shekels] of silver and give [them] to the father of the young woman, because he has brought a bad name on a virgin of Israel. And she shall be his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20 "But if the thing is true, [and evidences of] virginity are not found for the young woman, 21 "then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has done a disgraceful thing in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house. So you shall put away the evil from among you. 22 "If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die--the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel. 23 "If a young woman [who is] a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, 24 "then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor's wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you. 25 "But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 "But you shall do nothing to the young woman; [there is] in the young woman no sin [deserving] of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so [is] this matter. 27 "For he found her in the countryside, [and] the betrothed young woman cried out, but [there was] no one to save her. 28 "If a man finds a young woman [who is] a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, 29 "then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman's father fifty [shekels] of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days. 30 "A man shall not take his father's wife, nor uncover his father's bed.

Shalom.

Jacob

There is no test of pregnancy mentioned.

 

[Jacob]

You actually might get the chance to live under the Law if the Tribulation isn't too far off and you survive it.

Personally, I will remain under Grace and be evacuated from the earth, to be with the Lord, before that happens.

*PS there are 613 Commandments and 200+ are presently impossible to observe.

Shalom.

Today is Rishon, 11-5.

I do not believe the things that you are talking about or saying. I do not believe in a Tribulation or a Tribulation as you have described with people living under the Law where otherwise they would not have. I do not follow your view about how there will be an evacuation from the earth, even before that happens.

I am an ex-premillennial pre-tribulation dispensationalist. I do not believe in a tribulation or millenium except as found in the Bible. In other words, I do not have an end-time scenario.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Jacob]

There is no test of pregnancy mentioned.

Shalom.

Adultery is when someone who is married or engaged (is this adultery) is found to have had sex with someone other than the person that they are married to or engaged to be married to.

Are there two or three witnesses? In the situation of adultery it may not be two or three witnesses unless this is for all capital cases?

No pregnancy test or test of pregnancy, the husband would have needed to suspect her of infidelity. If she is not married or engaged but had sex or is found to be with child (abortion is always illegal, so these are just the two ways to determine if she had sex with someone, witnesses, verbal testimony, or being found to be pregnant) she may become the man's wife but only as the Torah describes. This is actually (however?) about the spirit of jealousy. See verses 29 and 30 of Numbers 5 here.

Numbers 5:11-31 NKJV - 11 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 12 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'If any man's wife goes astray and behaves unfaithfully toward him, 13 'and a man lies with her carnally, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and it is concealed that she has defiled herself, and [there was] no witness against her, nor was she caught-- 14 'if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him and he becomes jealous of his wife, who has defiled herself; or if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him and he becomes jealous of his wife, although she has not defiled herself-- 15 'then the man shall bring his wife to the priest. He shall bring the offering required for her, one-tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, because it [is] a grain offering of jealousy, an offering for remembering, for bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16 'And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD. 17 'The priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put [it] into the water. 18 'Then the priest shall stand the woman before the LORD, uncover the woman's head, and put the offering for remembering in her hands, which [is] the grain offering of jealousy. And the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 'And the priest shall put her under oath, and say to the woman, "If no man has lain with you, and if you have not gone astray to uncleanness [while] under your husband's [authority], be free from this bitter water that brings a curse. 20 "But if you have gone astray [while] under your husband's [authority], and if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has lain with you"-- 21 then the priest shall put the woman under the oath of the curse, and he shall say to the woman--"the LORD make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the LORD makes your thigh rot and your belly swell; 22 "and may this water that causes the curse go into your stomach, and make [your] belly swell and [your] thigh rot." Then the woman shall say, "Amen, so be it." 23 'Then the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall scrape [them] off into the bitter water. 24 'And he shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter her [to become] bitter. 25 'Then the priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy from the woman's hand, shall wave the offering before the LORD, and bring it to the altar; 26 'and the priest shall take a handful of the offering, as its memorial portion, burn [it] on the altar, and afterward make the woman drink the water. 27 'When he has made her drink the water, then it shall be, if she has defiled herself and behaved unfaithfully toward her husband, that the water that brings a curse will enter her [and become] bitter, and her belly will swell, her thigh will rot, and the woman will become a curse among her people. 28 'But if the woman has not defiled herself, and is clean, then she shall be free and may conceive children. 29 'This [is] the law of jealousy, when a wife, [while] under her husband's [authority], goes astray and defiles herself, 30 'or when the spirit of jealousy comes upon a man, and he becomes jealous of his wife; then he shall stand the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute all this law upon her. 31 'Then the man shall be free from iniquity, but that woman shall bear her guilt.' "

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[oatmeal]

Shalom.

Today is Shishi, 11-3.

Abortion is murder. It is taking an innocent unborn child's life.

What is not murder is when an adultress and her unborn child die according to the Law (remember what she must go through if and when her husband suspects her to have been unfaithful).

I do not know all the things you are talking about with your sensibilities.

Shalom.

Jacob

I am glad you have developed your opinion.

But what is it based on?

You do not show any scriptures that teach that.

Why not?

 

[oatmeal]

If it's not murder .... then what is it?

Did David kill Goliath or did he murder Goliath?

If you injure a finger and it is not reparable, and needs to be amputated, is that murder?

My point being that as long as the baby is connected to the mother via the umbilical cord it is part of the mother not a separate human being.

Abortion is by no means a decision to be taken lightly for the potential of separate human being is real. But it is not murder.

 

[Stripe]

Shalom. Adultery is when someone who is married or engaged (is this adultery) is found to have had sex with someone other than the person that they are married to or engaged to be married to.Are there two or three witnesses? In the situation of adultery it may not be two or three witnesses unless this is for all capital cases?No pregnancy test or test of pregnancy, the husband would have needed to suspect her of infidelity. If she is not married or engaged but had sex or is found to be with child (abortion is always illegal, so these are just the two ways to determine if she had sex with someone, witnesses, verbal testimony, or being found to be pregnant) she may become the man's wife but only as the Torah describes. This is actually (however?) about the spirit of jealousy. See verses 29 and 30 of Numbers 5 here.Numbers 5:11-31 NKJV - 11 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 12 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'If any man's wife goes astray and behaves unfaithfully toward him, 13 'and a man lies with her carnally, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and it is concealed that she has defiled herself, and [there was] no witness against her, nor was she caught-- 14 'if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him and he becomes jealous of his wife, who has defiled herself; or if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him and he becomes jealous of his wife, although she has not defiled herself-- 15 'then the man shall bring his wife to the priest. He shall bring the offering required for her, one-tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, because it [is] a grain offering of jealousy, an offering for remembering, for bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16 'And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD. 17 'The priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put [it] into the water. 18 'Then the priest shall stand the woman before the LORD, uncover the woman's head, and put the offering for remembering in her hands, which [is] the grain offering of jealousy. And the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 'And the priest shall put her under oath, and say to the woman, "If no man has lain with you, and if you have not gone astray to uncleanness [while] under your husband's [authority], be free from this bitter water that brings a curse. 20 "But if you have gone astray [while] under your husband's [authority], and if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has lain with you"-- 21 then the priest shall put the woman under the oath of the curse, and he shall say to the woman--"the LORD make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the LORD makes your thigh rot and your belly swell; 22 "and may this water that causes the curse go into your stomach, and make [your] belly swell and [your] thigh rot." Then the woman shall say, "Amen, so be it." 23 'Then the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall scrape [them] off into the bitter water. 24 'And he shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter her [to become] bitter. 25 'Then the priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy from the woman's hand, shall wave the offering before the LORD, and bring it to the altar; 26 'and the priest shall take a handful of the offering, as its memorial portion, burn [it] on the altar, and afterward make the woman drink the water. 27 'When he has made her drink the water, then it shall be, if she has defiled herself and behaved unfaithfully toward her husband, that the water that brings a curse will enter her [and become] bitter, and her belly will swell, her thigh will rot, and the woman will become a curse among her people. 28 'But if the woman has not defiled herself, and is clean, then she shall be free and may conceive children. 29 'This [is] the law of jealousy, when a wife, [while] under her husband's [authority], goes astray and defiles herself, 30 'or when the spirit of jealousy comes upon a man, and he becomes jealous of his wife; then he shall stand the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute all this law upon her. 31 'Then the man shall be free from iniquity, but that woman shall bear her guilt.' "Shalom.Jacob

It looks like you have little idea of what I objected to.

And a means of testing was outlined; it just wasn't a test for pregnancy.

 

[Stuu]

Numbers 31:15-17 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

Hosea 9:16 Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.

Hosea 13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Genesis 38:24 Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.

And don't forget you can have abortion on demand for your unfaithful wife:

Number 5:19-22 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse: But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.

Stuart

 

[beameup]

Shalom.



I do not believe the things that you are talking about or saying. I do not believe in a Tribulation or a Tribulation as you have described with people living under the Law where otherwise they would not have. I do not follow your view about how there will be an evacuation from the earth, even before that happens.

I am an ex-premillennial pre-tribulation dispensationalist. I do not believe in a tribulation or millenium except as found in the Bible. In other words, I do not have an end-time scenario.

Shalom.

Jacob

So, then you have no Gospel.
You have no "Gospel of the Kingdom";
You have no "Gospel of Grace".
You only have strict Legalism.

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. - Galatians 1:6-9

Sounds to me like you have put yourself under a curse.

 

[Jacob]

I am glad you have developed your opinion.

But what is it based on?

You do not show any scriptures that teach that.

Why not?

Shalom.

Today is Sheni, 11-6.

I am sorry but are you saying that murder, killing an unborn child, taking the life of the unborn or of the innocent, is not murder? Even killing a person who has transgressed God's law is against God's law unless it is according to Torah law that this is done, with two or three witnesses (in every case?), for a capital offense or for capital offenses, where capital punishment or the death penalty takes place or is employed.

Shalom.

Jacob