beloved57
Well-known member
Dont dodge the issue, can you answer post 19 ?
A Saviour unto Israel
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Dont dodge the issue, can you answer post 19 ?
The olive tree is earthly Israel. Not the Body. Circumcised gentiles that blessed Israel and honored God are welcome to be with earthly Israel. Well, that doesn't matter today.
beloved57
Well-known member
Did Paul say that there are Two distinct Israels or Not ?
Not. Now you go answer Ezekiel. Do you think God showed him that in error?
beloved57
Well-known member
Jacob looked for an Heavenly Inheritance according to Heb 11:
9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
And also, Answer the question and quit playing dodge ball like a little kid, How many Israels does paul acknowledge..
rom 9:
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
beloved57
Well-known member
Not..then you plainly deny scripture, whats the use in dialouging with someone who flat out denies scripture, your mind is so deceived , there is no telling what foolishness will spue out of your mouth..
beloved57
Well-known member
There was a national Israel and a remnant Israel..Rom 9:6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:27
27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Rom 11:4-7
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a Remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
The promises of old were to Israel the Remnant, who were in National Israel, and God has been faithful to His promises to the Remnant Israel, thats why paul says:
Rom 11:1-2
1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
So the promises has always been not to all of the nation of Israel, but to a remnant within the nation..which too is Israel, the Israel of God..
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:27
27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Rom 11:4-7
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a Remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
The promises of old were to Israel the Remnant, who were in National Israel, and God has been faithful to His promises to the Remnant Israel, thats why paul says:
Rom 11:1-2
1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
So the promises has always been not to all of the nation of Israel, but to a remnant within the nation..which too is Israel, the Israel of God..
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beloved57
Well-known member
Thats not what it says..
beloved57
Well-known member
Who Is Israel ?
Who Is Israel ?
The True Israel of God is really Jesus Christ..There are scriptures that indicate this i.e Isa 49:1-3
1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3
And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
Jesus Christ was the antitype of Jacob or Israel, being the Head and Representative of the whole Israel of God, which is His body, the church.
The prophecy in Hosea indicates that Jesus Christ is Gods Son Israel
Hos 11:1
When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Now see how the Holy Spirit applies this too Jesus in Matt 2:15
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
So Israel is all those who are in Union with Gods Son Israel..for they were chosen in Him
Eph 1:4
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Who Is Israel ?
The True Israel of God is really Jesus Christ..There are scriptures that indicate this i.e Isa 49:1-3
1Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3
And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
Jesus Christ was the antitype of Jacob or Israel, being the Head and Representative of the whole Israel of God, which is His body, the church.
The prophecy in Hosea indicates that Jesus Christ is Gods Son Israel
Hos 11:1
When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Now see how the Holy Spirit applies this too Jesus in Matt 2:15
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
So Israel is all those who are in Union with Gods Son Israel..for they were chosen in Him
Eph 1:4
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
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beloved57
Well-known member
I am the True Vine Israel
I am the True Vine Israel
Jn 15:1
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Jesus here is intimating that He is the True Israel..for vine represents Israel in scripture. Now remember how that the Son out of egypt intimated Jesus as Israel i.e Hos 11:1
1When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Matt 2:15
15And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
Now there is more scripture confirmation that this son called out of egypt, which was christ typified, also is typified by a vine, lets look at Ps 80:8
8Thou hast brought a vine out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen, and planted it.
This vine out of egypt, is Jesus the True Israel, the True vine of Jn 15: 1
And it serves to reason, all those chosen in Him before the foundation are the true Sons of Israel..
I am the True Vine Israel
Jn 15:1
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Jesus here is intimating that He is the True Israel..for vine represents Israel in scripture. Now remember how that the Son out of egypt intimated Jesus as Israel i.e Hos 11:1
1When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Matt 2:15
15And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
Now there is more scripture confirmation that this son called out of egypt, which was christ typified, also is typified by a vine, lets look at Ps 80:8
8Thou hast brought a vine out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen, and planted it.
This vine out of egypt, is Jesus the True Israel, the True vine of Jn 15: 1
And it serves to reason, all those chosen in Him before the foundation are the true Sons of Israel..
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beloved57
Well-known member
Rom 11:28
Rom 11:28
Rom 11:28
28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
The unbelieving Jews were enemies of the gospel and to all who were true believers, both jew and gentile. For Paul himself as an unbelieving jew was a enemie to those who preached and believed the gospel [ 1 Tim 1:13 ; Acts 9], but as for the election of grace within Israel, these are loved for the promises made to fathers sake, the promises that there would be deliverance for ethnic jews is kept by God in the deliverance of the election of grace within the jewish people, as paul himself was an example of [ Rom 11:1] So this verse here speaks as rom 9:6 contrasting the two Israels, which are Unbelieving Israel the enemies of the gospel [ permanently ] and the remnant which is according to the election of grace, who of course start out as enemies by nature as paul did , but will be delivered or converted to Jesus christ as Paul was.. The remnant along with the believing gentiles is how all Israel will be saved, and at the same time God being Faithful to ethnic Jews who are part of the election of grace..
Rom 11:28
Rom 11:28
28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
The unbelieving Jews were enemies of the gospel and to all who were true believers, both jew and gentile. For Paul himself as an unbelieving jew was a enemie to those who preached and believed the gospel [ 1 Tim 1:13 ; Acts 9], but as for the election of grace within Israel, these are loved for the promises made to fathers sake, the promises that there would be deliverance for ethnic jews is kept by God in the deliverance of the election of grace within the jewish people, as paul himself was an example of [ Rom 11:1] So this verse here speaks as rom 9:6 contrasting the two Israels, which are Unbelieving Israel the enemies of the gospel [ permanently ] and the remnant which is according to the election of grace, who of course start out as enemies by nature as paul did , but will be delivered or converted to Jesus christ as Paul was.. The remnant along with the believing gentiles is how all Israel will be saved, and at the same time God being Faithful to ethnic Jews who are part of the election of grace..
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beloved57
Well-known member
When the fulness of the gentiles has come in, it will be no longer time for any to be grafted into the olive tree, at that time [ the end] all Israel shall be saved [ Not National Israel] but all Israel, the Israel of God, all them chosen in the True servant Israel, Jesus christ [ isa 49 ], this is clearly stated rom 11:26. Again Jesus is the Israel of whom the promises pertained [ gal 3:16] also see isa 49:1-3 of which it is said, has a sword in His mouth and His Name is Israel..Isa 49:
Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me
from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
No doubt this is Jesus christ, and except one is in christ, they are not of the Israel of promise, which again is why paul writes rom 9:6. There was a national external covenant Israel, through the Law [ ex 20], and there is the eternal covenant Israel through election in Jesus christ before the world began, the foreknown rom 11:1..
Now if Jesus christ is the Israel per Isa 49, Hos 1 ; matt 2:15; and ps 80:8, then the church, His body, is the representation of the body of Israel..
When the last elect jew or gentile is brought into fellowship with Jesus christ their Head, then the end shall come..
Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me
from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
No doubt this is Jesus christ, and except one is in christ, they are not of the Israel of promise, which again is why paul writes rom 9:6. There was a national external covenant Israel, through the Law [ ex 20], and there is the eternal covenant Israel through election in Jesus christ before the world began, the foreknown rom 11:1..
Now if Jesus christ is the Israel per Isa 49, Hos 1 ; matt 2:15; and ps 80:8, then the church, His body, is the representation of the body of Israel..
When the last elect jew or gentile is brought into fellowship with Jesus christ their Head, then the end shall come..
Time for your daily dose. :mock: beretard57
beloved57
Well-known member
The Fable !
The Fable !
Titus 1:14
Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
The whole concoction of a future restoration of National Israel is premised on mere speculation and spiritual blindness to the truth; for If God did make such a promise, then the promise would be unconditional, and if so, then how and why did He cut her off as branches from the covenant olive tree because of their unbelief ? For that would be absurd and contradicts the very nature of God in being Faithful to His covenant promises in spite of our unbelief per 2 tim 2:
13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
But yet the false teaching of today's dispensationalist says just that, that Israel [ the nation] has been rejected only temporarily due to unbelief !
The Fable !
Titus 1:14
Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
The whole concoction of a future restoration of National Israel is premised on mere speculation and spiritual blindness to the truth; for If God did make such a promise, then the promise would be unconditional, and if so, then how and why did He cut her off as branches from the covenant olive tree because of their unbelief ? For that would be absurd and contradicts the very nature of God in being Faithful to His covenant promises in spite of our unbelief per 2 tim 2:
13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
But yet the false teaching of today's dispensationalist says just that, that Israel [ the nation] has been rejected only temporarily due to unbelief !
Actually, it is conditional, as all his prophecy regarding a nation. And don't you think God's predictions are pretty good? He said Israel will repent and turn to him.
Because many people shake their fist at God.
Romans 11
1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day. 9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
:mock: beretarded57
beloved57
Well-known member
The all Israel that will be saved !
The all Israel that will be saved !
Rom 11:26
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob
The all Israel that will be saved is the all Israel for which the deliverer came out of zion [ which is Christ the messiah first coming] Isa 59:20
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
The all Israel for whom He went to the cross to redeem per Ps 130:7-8
7 Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.
8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
Isa 44:21-23
21Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel,[see Isa 49:3] thou shalt not be forgotten of me.
22I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
23Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel
Lk:68
68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
This is not carnal Israel, but all the Israel of God, chosen not by race but by Grace in the Israel of God, Jesus Christ. The New Covenant with Israel is inclusive of the fullness of the gentiles and when that is completed, then cometh to pass, and so all Israel shall be saved, by the deliverer that came out of zion..
This was fulfilled during Jesus Christ first coming, and during His ministry then, He was the King that cometh unto zion..
Matt 21:1-6
1And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,
2Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an *** tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
3And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
4All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ***, and a colt the foal of an ***.
6And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,
This turning of Jacob from ungodliness was accomplished by Jesus death on the cross, for it was used of God to turn many ethnic Jews of Israel to God, peter states here Acts 3:25-26
25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. cp with Rom 11:26
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob
The all Israel that will be saved !
Rom 11:26
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob
The all Israel that will be saved is the all Israel for which the deliverer came out of zion [ which is Christ the messiah first coming] Isa 59:20
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
The all Israel for whom He went to the cross to redeem per Ps 130:7-8
7 Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.
8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
Isa 44:21-23
21Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel,[see Isa 49:3] thou shalt not be forgotten of me.
22I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
23Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel
Lk:68
68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
This is not carnal Israel, but all the Israel of God, chosen not by race but by Grace in the Israel of God, Jesus Christ. The New Covenant with Israel is inclusive of the fullness of the gentiles and when that is completed, then cometh to pass, and so all Israel shall be saved, by the deliverer that came out of zion..
This was fulfilled during Jesus Christ first coming, and during His ministry then, He was the King that cometh unto zion..
Matt 21:1-6
1And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,
2Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an *** tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
3And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
4All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ***, and a colt the foal of an ***.
6And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,
This turning of Jacob from ungodliness was accomplished by Jesus death on the cross, for it was used of God to turn many ethnic Jews of Israel to God, peter states here Acts 3:25-26
25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. cp with Rom 11:26
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob
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beloved57
Well-known member
The Gifts and Callings of God
The Gifts and Callings of God
Rom 11:29
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
For the gifts and callings of God are without repentance; and thats why for the Fathers sake there is a remnant [ Israel of God] in Israel [ National Israel], again thats why Paul, a benjamite, a hebrew of hebrews , was made to see[converted], and thats why he had a good hope that many more of his jewish brethren would be turned to the Lord, they too being of the foreknown of God and the election of grace, of which the rest were broken off in their unbelief.
Note: When God set aside the National Covenant with Israel as a Nation being the representation of the Kingdom of God on earth as His People, that did not mean He would not still save ethnic Jews by grace..
You see those that were blinded [ Jn 9:39] were made enemies for the gentiles sake, that the elect remnant of them [ see Acts 15:14-16] may be grafted into the Olive Tree, but in regards to the remnant according to the election of grace [in national Israel], they are beloved for the Fathers sake, because the gifts and the callings of God's own eternal purpose of grace [ 2 Tim 1:9] and not race.
For God did not repent of His purpose of Judicial blindness unto the nation of Israel [ Jn 9:39] nor of His purpose and calling of the election of grace of the gentiles for james says:
Acts 15:17-18
17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
This blinding of national Israel and introducing of the gentiles into covenant relationship with the elect remnant of the jews, was all of Gods doing .. Matt 21:42
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
The Gifts and Callings of God
Rom 11:29
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
For the gifts and callings of God are without repentance; and thats why for the Fathers sake there is a remnant [ Israel of God] in Israel [ National Israel], again thats why Paul, a benjamite, a hebrew of hebrews , was made to see[converted], and thats why he had a good hope that many more of his jewish brethren would be turned to the Lord, they too being of the foreknown of God and the election of grace, of which the rest were broken off in their unbelief.
Note: When God set aside the National Covenant with Israel as a Nation being the representation of the Kingdom of God on earth as His People, that did not mean He would not still save ethnic Jews by grace..
You see those that were blinded [ Jn 9:39] were made enemies for the gentiles sake, that the elect remnant of them [ see Acts 15:14-16] may be grafted into the Olive Tree, but in regards to the remnant according to the election of grace [in national Israel], they are beloved for the Fathers sake, because the gifts and the callings of God's own eternal purpose of grace [ 2 Tim 1:9] and not race.
For God did not repent of His purpose of Judicial blindness unto the nation of Israel [ Jn 9:39] nor of His purpose and calling of the election of grace of the gentiles for james says:
Acts 15:17-18
17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
This blinding of national Israel and introducing of the gentiles into covenant relationship with the elect remnant of the jews, was all of Gods doing .. Matt 21:42
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
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Really? So you changed your mind?
I deleted most of your post, as you were given an infraction for its length.
You blithering idiot. :mock: bestupid57
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