A Saviour unto Israel

[beloved57]

God being a Saviour to Israel is nothing other than God being a Saviour to His Church that He purchased with His own Blood. Isa 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Acts 20:28

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

The Church and Israel are the same in that, the Church, which are Believers in Christ are the Spiritual Children of the OT Saints or Prophets. Gal 3:7,29

7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now in both of these references, Paul is referring to both Gentile and Jewish Believers in Christ through the gospel, for they are both partakers of God's Promises through the Gospel. Eph 3:6

That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

The Promise referred to is Here Gal 3:8

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed

Which goes back to Gen 12:3

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


Gen 22:18

18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

And Peter speaking to a primarily ethnic jewish audience states the same promise Acts 3:25-26

25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

So both Gentile Believers and Jewish Believers are Children of the Prophets, through Christ ! Which constitutes the Church that Christ Builds Matt 16:18

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

His Church is comprised of the Spiritual Children of Abraham, Gentile or Jew !

 

[beloved57]

For Christ to be a Saviour unto Israel as here Acts 13:23

Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

It's the same as Christ being the Saviour of the Body ! Eph 5:23

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

This proves that Israel and the Church, His Body are one and the same ! Eph 1:22-23

22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


You see Israel that Christ saves is not a literial Physical Israel, like those over in the middle east, but a Spiritual Israel, even the Israel of God, comprised of Abraham's Spiritual seed from the jews and from the gentiles..

 

[beloved57]

The Firstfruits of them that slept !

The Firstfruits of them that slept !

1 Cor 15:20

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Who at the time of Paul would be the them that slept ? The firstfruits of who ?

Paul is stating here that Christ through His Resurrection became the Firstfruits of them that slept ! The word slept here in the greek is in the Perfect Tense. Those that slept would be denoting all believers in Christ who had died in the OT and the those who had died up to that present time that Paul was writing. This shows us that the OT Saints and the NT Saints are all of one body, Christ's Church. Who was Paul writing to ?

It was the Church that was at Corinth 1 Cor 1:1-2

1Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

So Christ is the Firstfruits of all believers of all time, which means all believers of all time are His One Church, the Called out ones.

1 Cor 15 is speaking about Christ's Resurrection 1 Cor 15:12-18

12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

Ye know, if Christ had not risen from the dead, the OT Saints would be dead and yet in their sins !

But because they also were part of His Mystical Body the Church, His resurrection confirms their Faith in Him as they looked forward to His Coming, and the NT Saints look back !

What do you think Christ was talking about with Lazarus's sisters here ? Jn 11:23-26

23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Lazarus was an OT Believer who had hope in Christ and the Resurrection. This Resurrection was centered in the Finish work of Christ.

Was the Resurrection that Lazarus had hope in any different from the one Paul Preached in 1 Cor 15:4

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[Elia]

10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Bs'd

For Zach 12:10 look here: https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/et-asher


Eliyahu

 

[Ben Masada]

1 Cor 15:20

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Who at the time of Paul would be the them that slept ? The firstfruits of who ?

Paul is stating here that Christ through His Resurrection became the Firstfruits of them that slept ! The word slept here in the greek is in the Perfect Tense. Those that slept would be denoting all believers in Christ who had died in the OT and the those who had died up to that present time that Paul was writing. This shows us that the OT Saints and the NT Saints are all of one body, Christ's Church. Who was Paul writing to ?

It was the Church that was at Corinth 1 Cor 1:1-2

1Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

So Christ is the Firstfruits of all believers of all time, which means all believers of all time are His One Church, the Called out ones.

1 Cor 15 is speaking about Christ's Resurrection 1 Cor 15:12-18

12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

Ye know, if Christ had not risen from the dead, the OT Saints would be dead and yet in their sins !

But because they also were part of His Mystical Body the Church, His resurrection confirms their Faith in Him as they looked forward to His Coming, and the NT Saints look back !

What do you think Christ was talking about with Lazarus's sisters here ? Jn 11:23-26

23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Lazarus was an OT Believer who had hope in Christ and the Resurrection. This Resurrection was centered in the Finish work of Christ.

Was the Resurrection that Lazarus had hope in any different from the one Paul Preached in 1 Cor 15:4

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Since you are dealing here with I Corinthians 15, why not read verse 32? Paul declared that if the dead won't resurrect, let us eat and drink
for tomorrow we die. I can't understand how Christians would read something like that and not be able to see through the conditional faith of Paul. He himself, somewhere else, said that such a faith is comparable to mentrual rags. One is forced to quit trying to understand such an attitude.
Ben

 

[beloved57]

You see, National Israel was a Type of the Church, and early on Spiritual Israel, God's True Elect were in her, National Israel. All this was designed to show that God only dealt with a specific, and particular people for Salvation Purposes. What many did not understand was that, this specific and particular people, although for a long while resided in National Israel, would not be confined to that National People, but would be located throughout the world in all Nations under Heaven.

So when we read scriptures of prophecy denoting what God is going to do for Israel, or the House of David,or Judah and so forth, those scriptures don't mean Physical Israel, but that special and specific people that belong to the Election of Grace of all Nations.

An example is Zech 13:1

1In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

This Prophecy is speaking about Christ shed blood for His Church, that is who the House of David is speaking of here. The fountain open here is His Shed Blood. But notice the language, it tells us specifically whom this Fountain is opened to, a specific People, the House of David.

Thats important, and that is why Christ being of the seed of David is a important fact, not only to the jew but also the gentiles.

Paul writing to both jew and gentile believers opens up in his introduction to Romans Rom 1:1-3

1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

or look at his letter to Timothy who history tells us had a gentile Father 2 Tim 2:8

Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

And we know that Paul was an specially raised up Apostle for the Gentiles, and this fact of Christ being of the seed of David applied to them as well, because of prophecies like Zech 13:1. Paul taught them how they were objects of that specific promise ! Romans 15:12

And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

You see that ? To reign over the Gentiles, in Him shall they Trust ! Now to reign over the Gentiles here is the same as to reign over the the House of Jacob as here Lk 1:33

And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Guess what folks ? Its the same exact reign here as in Romans 15:12. I challenge anyone to prove it otherwise !

I make these points to show that even though Salvation extends outside of the boundaries of National and Ethnic Israel, yet it [Salvation] is still limited to Israel, even the Israel of God, which includes both chosen jews and gentiles !

 

[beloved57]

Was not God's People !

Was not God's People !

National Israel was not God's People ! If we look at Rom 11 it starts out with this question Rom 11:1-2

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

You see that ? God hath not cast away His People He foreknew ! This does not read, he has cast them away, but He will reclaim them, Paul plainly says He has not cast them away, period !

Now then, the people that God did cast away here in Rom 11:15

15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

This " Them" that are cast away, these could not have been God's People in Rom 11:2 that Paul said God hath not cast away, unless Paul lied or was confused..

 

[beloved57]

We know that the Nation that was blinded could not have been God's Chosen People, because, the Chosen or the Election obtained the Promises. So if the Election in the Nation obtained the Promises to Israel, Election means Chosen, then quite reasonably, the rest which were blinded could not have been the Election or Chosen ! Read Rom 11:7

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

This Israel,National hath not obtained that which he seeketh, in Contrast to that Israel which was the Elect did !

So that Israel [National] which did not receive and was blinded was not God's Chosen..

Jesus Christ would not blind His Chosen People, but His Purpose for them was to open their eyes so that they may see ! Isa 42:7

To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Acts 26:18

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

So those, the rest of Rom 11:7 were not God's elect whom He had a Saving Purpose for.

 

[Ben Masada]

We know that the Nation that was blinded could not have been God's Chosen People, because, the Chosen or the Election obtained the Promises. So if the Election in the Nation obtained the Promises to Israel, Election means Chosen, then quite reasonably, the rest which were blinded could not have been the Election or Chosen ! Read Rom 11:7

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

This Israel,National hath not obtained that which he seeketh, in Contrast to that Israel which was the Elect did !

So that Israel [National] which did not receive and was blinded was not God's Chosen..

This is Replacement Theology of the worst kind. Therefore, between you and Jesus, I prefer Jesus' view that the Jews are the light of the world, as he declared in his sermon of the mount to a crowd of Jews listening to him. (Mat. 5:14)
Ben

 

[beloved57]

ben

This is Replacement Theology of the worst kind.

It actually is against replacement, for God's Elect never has been Abraham's descendants according to the Flesh ! Not Ever..Prideful and egotistical ethnic jews made that claim, not God..

 

[Ps82]

Jews are not any more prideful than the rest of humanity. Of course that means that they are at least just as prideful as the rest of us.

Yet, the LORD chosen them ... and chose them as a Nation ... for his purposes.

He singled them out as a nation and chose them to reveal himself through them by the miracles, blessings, and corrections he would display among them before the eyes of the rest of the world.

They agreed to the covenant, which has meant their being held more accountable for their transgression - far more - than the rest of humanity.
They have endured much because of their relationship with the LORD.

I've never done a study regarding the final blessings of Israel, but I think that God will probably bless them nationally one day because of their earthly participation with God in his plans. After all, through thick and thin ... through obedience and disobedient ... through understanding and blindness ... they have been used by the LORD anyway... and have suffered from and in the eyes of the nations of the world because of their selection.

As one who is not a Jew ... and looking with hind-sight ... I'm not so sure it seems very blessed to have become a chosen nation due to the accountability to which God held them and the world hated them.

However, now, that the Gentiles have heard the truth and become children of Abraham through faith in Jesus Christ ... are we not held even the more accountable? To him who much is given - much is required. Have we not been offered the most wonderful gift of all - the salvation we could never have earned for ourselves?

Shouldn't we Christians certainly be as much - if not more - aware of our own accountability as was the nation of Israel ... of which the Jews are the preserved identifiable remnant?

 

[beloved57]

ps

Jews are not any more prideful than the rest of humanity.

Maybe not, but the reason why they are prideful is the issue, they think [some of them]they are better off with God than other people groups because of race and they are not.

Yet, the LORD chosen them

No He did not, He chose some of them along with people of other nations !

 

[beloved57]

So how could the Nation of Israel which God rejected be God's Chosen People, when scripture makes a distinction between the Rejected Nation and the Chosen or Election that was not rejected ? Rom 11:7

7What then? Israel[National] hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election[Spiritual Israel] hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Now both Spiritual Israel and National Israel cannot both be God's Election or Chosen.. So National Israel is a phony, a fake, a wanna be !

 

[Ps82]

ps



Maybe not, but the reason why they are prideful is the issue, they think [some of them]they are better off with God than other people groups because of race and they are not.



No He did not, He chose some of them along with people of other nations !

Well, now, that's interesting suggestion. I thought God made a covenant with the nation of Israel and their descendants after them. Help me see why you think that this is wrong.

I guess people can get puffed up when they perceive themselves as chosen of God ... but in the long run how has that worked out for them? They have become a pretty persecuted lot... unless they take pride in their persecution.

 

[Ps82]

Well, Beloved ... God chose them as the nation from which our LORD would one day be manifested. This was a sign of who he was when he arrived. I'd call that chosen for his purposes. He always preserved a remnant no matter what mortal conflict came against them ... I'd say that God has still been using and preserving them for his purposes to this day.

Please show me why you think I am wrong.

 

[beloved57]

ps

Well, now, that's interesting suggestion. I thought God made a covenant with the nation of Israel and their descendants after them

Thats what you get for thinking !

Well, Beloved ... God chose them as the nation from which our LORD would one day be manifested.

He chose the election within that nation, thats the nation Christ came through 1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

This has nothing to do with Physical borm jews, for if that is all one is, then they are not the Children of God Rom9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Christ came through the line that was the Children of God..

 

[Ps82]

ps



Thats what you get for thinking !



He chose the election within that nation, thats the nation Christ came through 1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

This has nothing to do with Physical born jews, for if that is all one is, then they are not the Children of God Rom9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Christ came through the line that was the Children of God..

Well, aren't the children of promise - Abraham's children through FAITH? That would include Jews and Gentiles who put their Faith in the Christ?
Yet, doesn't that still leave a possibility open for Israel to also be a chosen nation? Of course I know that a particular lineage within Israel led to Christ's identity. I've often wondered why it was through the lineage of Judah ... and not pf Joseph. What are your thoughts on this?

Aren't the Jews the identifiable remnant left alive today of the nation of Israel and the lineage of Judah? I guess you will need to explain more of your ideas to me before I catch on.

I'm sort of a fan of Herbert Armstrong, who believed that the identity of the 10 tribes could be traced through the British Isles and into early America. Oh well, that's another topic.

I've never heard your ideas about this:

He chose the election within that nation, thats the nation Christ came through 1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

This has nothing to do with Physical born jews, for if that is all one is, then they are not the Children of God Rom9:8

So, exactly who are these elected ones within that nation of Israel?

King David was a descendant of Judah from which we get the Jews ... and after the split of the Northern and Southern kingdoms his lineage of kings ruled over the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi.

Well, since your ideas are so new to me ... I just don't get where you are coming from. You will need to help me by being more detailed and specific with me.

 

[beloved57]

The Hope of Israel !

Acts 20:28

For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.

Why did the Apostle unto the Gentiles, one we know that without a shadow of doubt that God selected him specifically to be a Messenger to the Gentiles, why did he say "for the hope of Israel, he is bound with chain " ?

Because the Israel he is speaking of is not the National Israel comprised of Ethnic jews.

Its the Israel that is comprised of All the Children of Promise from amongst the jews and the Gentiles.

This Israel shall be saved with an everlasting salvation ! Isa 45:17

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Looking back at Acts 20:28, What is this Hope of Israel ? Why its the Hope of the Gospel Eph 3:6

6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Col 1:5

For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

Was this not Abraham's hope ? Heb 11:16, A Hope of a Heavenly City ?

Col 1:23

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature

Col 1:27

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

This Hope is the Hope of Israel Acts 20:28. Its a Spiritual Heavenly Hope for a Spiritual Heavenly People.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham's Physical descendants in the middle east, His Children merely by the Flesh, for they are not the Children of God Rom 9:8

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Ps82]

Hi Beloved,
You asked:

Why did the Apostle unto the Gentiles, one we know that without a shadow of doubt that God selected him specifically to be a Messenger to the Gentiles, why did he say "for the hope of Israel, he is bound with chain " ?

Here is the reason he referred to THIS CHAIN which resulted because he had hope for his own people.

Acts 28:20 KJV contains a pronoun - 'this' within this figurative clause: I am bound with this chain.

So what is the antecedent for this chain?
Well, Paul was talking about a particular group of Jews who had requested that the case made against him not to be dropped by the authorities. Acts 28:18, 19 KJV

This caused Paul to be bound to appeal to Caesar ... to show that he had done nothing against his own national Jewish religion. Acts 28:19 KJV

Now, because Paul had hope for his people Israel, he had been preaching among the Jews as well as the Gentiles. However, it was the Jews who usually rose up to harass him and cause him trouble. Because of THIS SECT of Jews (today, due to political correctness, people would probably prefer to call them radical terrorists) Paul had become bound in this legal mess like being bound with this chain they had caused to be attached to him.

In these passages Paul had called together another group of Jews with which to speak. He wanted to tell them about the harassment from those particular Jews who had chained him a legal life and death situation. Acts 28:17 KJV

This other group of Jews told Paul:
"We neither received letters out of Judaea (from other Jews) concerning you, neither any of the brethren (fellow Jews) that came showed or spake any harm of you. But we desire to hear of you (Paul) what you think:
for as concerning THIS SECT(of Jews), we know that every where it (that group) is spoken against."

When the day set had come Paul preached to these Jews about the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus... Acts 28:23 KJV

Paul wanted his people to hear of Jesus ... but he had become legally chained and bound to defend himself before Ceasear due to a particular SECT of Jews.

You concluded:

Because the Israel he is speaking of is not the National Israel comprised of Ethnic jews.

Its the Israel that is comprised of All the Children of Promise from amongst the jews and the Gentiles.

I do agree that people are saved through Christ ... and I believe that one day any unbelieving Jews will bow down and recognize Him as their Lord too...

BUT ... I'm just not sure that God is finished using literal national Israel to reveal his works and plans unto humanity. He and they are still in a covenant... and it's an on-going functioning covenant to be used by God.

Curses for dishonoring and disobeying Him... while blessings for honoring and obeying him.

Must run ...

 

[Ben Masada]

ben



It actually is against replacement, for God's Elect never has been Abraham's descendants according to the Flesh ! Not Ever..Prideful and egotistical ethnic jews made that claim, not God..

There is nothing "against" Replacement Theology in the NT or in the sermon of a Christian. It is impossible to open the mouth and not to promote the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.
Ben