ECT A Preterist Time Chart
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Interplanner
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When was Jn 2:21 true and to whom?
Right Divider
Body part
Why doesn't a brilliant "real writer and grammar scholar" understand figures of speech?
Interplanner
Well-known member
what is there to understand? they knew!
Right Divider
Body part
What did they know?
They did not know about the gospel of the grace of God. They did not know about salvation apart from Israel and their covenants.
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Interplanner
Well-known member
Total nonsense. They knew about the sacrificial lamb that takes away the sins of the world (the world). They became afraid of it through fear of the zealots and went into denial. Jn 6:66.
Mr.one thought at a time (JohnW) thinks he has me cornered about Lk 18's (they did not know) because he won't even read the next phrase: they were afraid to ask about it. It was a deliberate anti-knowing. They knew and were afraid to ask. They couldn't believe the whole thing--the Messiah campaign--was actually going that direction.
D'ism is at its most ignorant here because Lk 24 is nothing new. Lk 24 is restating what the OT had always said but Judaism had snowed. 24:21 is the knockout. D'ism does not have a clue what is going on there, nor Heb 11-13, which is in a letter called Hebrews but may very well have meant simply those who believe (Gal 3:29).
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
For the 2,346,317th time, review Leviticus. The scapegoat took away the sins. The scapegoat was not killed.
Payment for sins and the taking away of sins are two different events.
Right Divider
Body part
That has NOTHING to do with the gospel of the grace of God or salvation apart from covenants.
THEY (the twelve) had been preaching the GOSPEL of the KINGDOM for at least THREE years and YET did NOT know that Christ would DIE.
Your total denial of SIMPLE and OBVIOUS facts is clear to all.
Anyone can fantasize and equivocate. The cults all use that method.
You are a fiction writer that cannot separate fact from fiction.
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Interplanner
Well-known member
What did it mean in 1st century Judaism? We could probably find an OT passage to avoid every piece of NT background there is.
btw, there is more than 1 way to picture Christ. Removing sin is one. Being sacrificed is another. There's probably more! I go with Hebrews not you.
You sound about this the way atheists sound about Noah's deluge. "It is not possible for it to have happened."
Interplanner
Well-known member
Is 53? Ps 22 (22-24 were considered Messianic by Judaism)? Dan 9? The grace of God is right in Lk 1-2's songs.
You are a manifest liar and snow-job.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Heb 13:9. Christ's sacrifice was all about the grace of God. You are a manifest denying of exactly what is offered in the Gospel.
Interplanner
Well-known member
There is always grace in the kingdom of God in the gospels. It is sort of the point of it--that many would be included that were otherwise excluded by Judaism.
But more to the point, it was not confused with what the zealots were trying for. If Christ or his followers declared that, they would have been shut down.
The fact that it is in the songs of Lk 1-2 mean there were believers (in the same sense as in Heb 11=13) who were awaiting Messiah.
The 'kingdom' that came was as planned. Not of this order, powered by grace and the Gospel.
On the Is 61 passage in Lk 4, there is no question the gospel had come, but there is the question of HOW MUCH of the wrath of God would come. Thus the stopping point. But there is no doubt at all that the gospel for the poor was underway, intended, fulfilled. Made them mad!
But more to the point, it was not confused with what the zealots were trying for. If Christ or his followers declared that, they would have been shut down.
The fact that it is in the songs of Lk 1-2 mean there were believers (in the same sense as in Heb 11=13) who were awaiting Messiah.
The 'kingdom' that came was as planned. Not of this order, powered by grace and the Gospel.
On the Is 61 passage in Lk 4, there is no question the gospel had come, but there is the question of HOW MUCH of the wrath of God would come. Thus the stopping point. But there is no doubt at all that the gospel for the poor was underway, intended, fulfilled. Made them mad!
Right Divider
Body part
The BIBLE says that they DID NOT KNOW.
Luke 18:31-34 (AKJV/PCE)
(18:31) ¶ Then he took [unto him] the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (18:32) For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: (18:33) And they shall scourge [him], and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. (18:34) And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
John 20:9 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:9) For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
If you want to see a liar and a snow-jobber, look in a mirror.
Why do you continue to lie about the 12 knowing about the impending dbr, and making up this demon intoxicated, speculative, "They knew....They were just in denial" dung. You were shown, chapter, verse, where the dbr was hid from them, prior to its occurrence, as they knew nothing about it. You cannot deny, that which you do not know.
As asked-tell all of TOL why you are lying on this.
And tell all of TOL, why you never post any of the words of scripture, on TOL, Oprah. Watch his evasive "answer"-watch. Your daddy devil have a gag order on you, as you hate the power, of the actual words, fearing it will slice, and dice you up-again? Yes......You could not expound on Genesis 1:1 KJV, even if an angel gave you cue cards, from which to read, IMO-planner.
Right Divider
Body part
Noah found grace.... but it's NOT the same.
There are various forms of God's grace throughout the Bible and liars like you try to CONFLATE them.
Translated: objective truth is determined by consensus.
Could you translate that "the English," into "the Greek?" Please teach us...Please?
Poser.
Interplanner
Well-known member
So what if there are two picture? We have to go with Hebrews, and for the 2,000,000th time, you claim to be up on Hebrews and it keeps destroying you. Christ did what Is 53 says. He bore our sins like a sheep before its slaughterers.
You are so off point on this, both of you.
Interplanner
Well-known member
There is no BOC in Scripture. It is believers.
If all you do is Scripture why 49K posts and reading 49K posts. You're a fool with words.
Interplanner
Well-known member
THey heard John,
they heard Jesus say 2:20.
They heard him teach Is 61.
They knew Is 53, Ps 22-24, Dan 9.
Therefore the Lk 18 passage has more color to it than you realize. It means they were in denial and scared spitless because they did know what it meant.
You have no understanding of human nature either, and no historical knowledge. Makes your Bible a set of flat tires.
Interplanner
Well-known member
That's the madness of D'ism. THey would rather preaching many compartments of grace instead of what heb 11 says. And then call it "Biblical" so they can keep two programs alive (choking and suffocating actually).