James was written to who? Learn to "rightly divide the word!" Also,
learn how to, not be so annoying? Although, I think it comes
natural for you!
ECT A difference between right and wrong
- Thread starter Jacob
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James was written to who? Learn to "rightly divide the word!" Also,
learn how to, not be so annoying? Although, I think it comes
natural for you!
John was written to the "House of Israel" also! Why don't you think
before posting? It might help you too look a little brighter? Although,
I have my doubts?
before posting? It might help you too look a little brighter? Although,
I have my doubts?
PureX
Well-known member
Me too. But it was't their "disobedience" that was the problem (as the religious authoritarians are always insisting). It was their hubris: their presuming themselves to be God's equals. I believe that is the ultimate "original" sin of mankind. And from that arrogant self-deception comes all our sinfulness, strife, suffering, and separation from both God and the natural world.
PureX
Well-known member
Obedience for obedience's sake is an exercise in pointlessness. And obedience without willful affirmation is a false pretense. If God had wanted blind obedience, he wouldn't have allowed the possibility for temptation, or for disobedience, in the first place.
But God is not an authoritarian, as the religious authoritarians would have us all believe. Instead, God gave mankind the freedom to choose our own beliefs, and our own actions. And then forgives us for our blunders upon our asking, so that we can learn how to live and and grow in God's grace.
God is not about "obedience". God is about relationship. Man is punished through that with which he sins so that he may learn the that the consequence of sin is death. Not because he dared to "disobey God".
If God says to us; "you cannot fly, so do not try". And we immediately run to the nearest high cliff and jump off, flapping our arms and hoping to fly, when we fall to our death is it because we "disobeyed God"? Or is it because we would not believe the truth of what God was telling us? Do you think God telling us not to try and fly was to test our obedience to him? Or to teach us how to live, and not to hurt ourselves? The authoritarians tell us that sin is "disobedience" because they want us to believe that disobedience is a sin. But I think sin is really the lack of humility, and the lack of faith, and trust in God. And it's not about obedience at all.
I am saying the problem is man's problem, not God's. Doing things God's way for us alleviates this problem we have.
God would not have commanded anything if it were not possible to obey that command.
PureX
Well-known member
The problem is that God has not commanded anything. We don't know what God's way is. Sure, we have lots of humans presuming themselves to be God's spokesmen, and telling us all what "God commands". But God Himself remains silent. As God's will is being expressed through what is.
So we have to learn. That's what "sin" and forgiveness is really all about. It's about our learning to trust in God's truth as it is being expressed through reality. And learning to trust in God's love as it is heals and saves us from ourselves. Each time we fail at this trust we sin, and we self-destruct. Each time we catch ourselves failing and 'repent' of it, we are immediately forgiven and given a new chance to trust in God, and thereby learn again how to live.
The religious idolaters think their religion is God. They think trusting in their religion is the same as trusting in God. But they also think trust is just blind obedience. Which is why they learn nothing of real spiritual value from it. They have hitched their wagon to a make-believe horse that can take them nowhere.
God is not a religion, or a set of religious myths, dogmas, rules or rituals. God is reality, and life, and love, and freedom. And the more we learn to trust in these expressions of God, the more wise and joyful and forgiving we become. As we were always intended to be, by God, our creator.
That state love and wisdom and joy and freedom is our 'Eden'. And trust in God is the way back to it. Not blind obedience to any religion or the ego-centric delusions of our own divinity.
There is a difference between obeying God and trusting Him at His word, and blind faith or blind obedience.
PureX
Well-known member
Exactumundo! The authoritarians preach the former. While an engaged mind, living life with honesty and love, teaches us the latter.
God is reality, not religion. It's important to understand this so that we can use religion to the extent that it's useful, but still reject it when it becomes a stumbling block.
I'm not a hater of religion, though I often appear that way. It's just that I can see how a lot of times religion is being used to horribly damage people, emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, and sometimes even physically.
Obedience that is not born out of trust is in a sense blind. But think of the fact that God doesn't need to earn our trust. He has it because of who He is. Those who shake their fists at God do not understand what they are doing, are hardened toward Him for whatever reason, or dwell in their sin and love it or accept their situation without thinking that God has their best interests in mind.
Do you know what God requires or asks of you? Micah 6:8.
Remebmer first comes: Deuteronomy 30:11 NASB - "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
Then if you are willing, 1 John 5:3.
PureX
Well-known member
I think those that those who shake their fists at God do so because they are frightened, and frustrated; because they still assume that the world is supposed to serve them, exclusively, and it's not doing so. They are still committing that 'original sin' of hubris, as they are still assuming that they are demigods: the co-owners and judges of all they encounter.
And even when we finally give that idea up, we quickly realize that we "own" nothing. Nor do we possess the knowledge or the wisdom to stand in judgment of anything: the world or it's people, because we did not create them, and we do not control them. But this realization severely humbles us, and frightens us, and we don't like that. So we try to avoid it by falling back into that old hubris, again.
This is an endless struggle for we humans. Through which we need constant forgiveness.
And even when we finally give that idea up, we quickly realize that we "own" nothing. Nor do we possess the knowledge or the wisdom to stand in judgment of anything: the world or it's people, because we did not create them, and we do not control them. But this realization severely humbles us, and frightens us, and we don't like that. So we try to avoid it by falling back into that old hubris, again.
This is an endless struggle for we humans. Through which we need constant forgiveness.
God will help you to obey Him no matter what weakness you have, when you are submitted to, or when you submit yourself to, Him. In Him alone do we find our salvation.
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PureX
Well-known member
All that exists, exist "in Him", "by Him", and "through Him". And the more we fuss over obedience, the further away from that realization be get. We are healed and saved by God's love and forgiveness acting in us, and through us, and to each other. There is no "only Him" because God is the sum of it all. The "alpha and omega".
What do you make of this verse?
Acts 5:32 NASB - "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."
that's an excellent verse.
PureX
Well-known member
Keep in mind that I do not make a false idol of the Bible. It is a collection of the writings of men about their ideas and relationships with God. It is not the 'Book of God'. And "inspired" does not mean "miraculously inerrant". Men obsess over their own imagined power and authority over other men. And man's religions often use God to create and enforce their own imagined 'authority' over each other.
In this verse, for instance, who is "Him"? Is it God? But God is not male or female. And God is not a 'person'. So why is this verse referring to God as "Him", unless it's a view of God from man's self-centered perspective?
And if the "Him" being referred to is the spirit of God that exists within us, then why is it being called "Him"? That spirit has no gender, or personage, either. So again, referring to it as a "Him" only reveals that this is a view of God's spirit from a self-centered man's perspective.
And in fact all of the Bible is written from the self-centered and limited perspective of the men who wrote it. They may have been "inspired" by God, but clearly, that inspiration did not erase their human limitations, which we can see for ourselves in the way it's written. And even if it had, it would not erase ours, as we read and interpret it.
Don't worry about other people exerting power of influence. God will give you a good respect for authority. But it is not a good idea to speak against the authority of God's word, the Bible. It hinders you from a close walk with God.
PureX
Well-known member
The Bible is not "God's word". Nor is it a collection of "God's words". God's "word" (meaning "logos") is the truth of all that is. It is the reason everything exists, and the way it all fits together; and God's will that it be done. It is the heart and mind of God manifesting as 'being'.
The Bible has no particular authority over me. The only authority I recognize is God's. And God didn't write any religious books. Nor did God invent any religions. We humans did that. And now we try to use them to gain a false sense of righteousness for ourselves, and/or to gain authority over others with it.
I don't accept any of that. I appreciate the Bible and religious Christianity for what it is, but I remain cognizant of what it's not.
The Bible is authoritative. You don't need to think of it as a person that is an authority. Because it is authoritative (what we have in it came from God) I consider it to be an authority in my life. God is my authority, and I want to pay attention to what He has said in His book, the Bible. I hope you do not contend with Christ as much as you may see error in the world around you. Christians should represent Christ, and that is what Christianity is about.