Theology Club: A Debate Between an A9D and an A28D
- Thread starter Danoh
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Its interesting; neither is really that strong as to the finer details of each their respective position.
Some of the distinctions between both views, though, still stand out.
And Collins used to be Acts 9.
Usually, one of their top guys (in A28D) will step in at some point, or Eli will simply post from their own sites on his and then examine them.
In this case, Brian Kelson:
http://av1611studyblog.blogspot.com/2014/06/hoss-vs-brian-kelson-of-acts-28net-is.html
Some of the distinctions between both views, though, still stand out.
And Collins used to be Acts 9.
Usually, one of their top guys (in A28D) will step in at some point, or Eli will simply post from their own sites on his and then examine them.
In this case, Brian Kelson:
http://av1611studyblog.blogspot.com/2014/06/hoss-vs-brian-kelson-of-acts-28net-is.html
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So you believe that two different dispensations are in effect right now.
What evidence can you give that the dispensation of the grace of God began shortly after Acts 28?
Acts 28er, Brian Kelso, Examines Acts 9's Richard Jordan's "Did Paul Break His Word?"
http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/Jordandidpaulbreakhisword.htm
http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/Jordandidpaulbreakhisword.htm
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The Acts 28 teaching of Charles Welch is entirely dependent on the idea that Israel was not cast aside until Acts 28. So let us examine if Welch is right or not about when Israel was cast aside:
"For if their having been cast aside has carried with it the reconciliation of the world, what will their being accepted again be but Life out of death? (Ro.11:15; WNT).
According to Paul Israel's being cast aside carried with it the "reconciliation of the world."
And that reconciliation of the world is spoken of as have already happened in an epistle which was written BEFORE ACTS 28:
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation" (2 Cor.5:19).
The Acts 28 teaching comes tumbling down like a child's house of cards when it is understood that Israel was cast aside before Acts 28.
I think that SaulToPaul also believes that Israel was not cast aside until Acts 28.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by SaulToPaul
I am open to being labelled whatever fits:
1. I believe the dispensation of the gospel began in Acts 9.
2. I believe a transition occurred in Acts 18, steering Paul onto his eventual course, and is hinted at in Romans and 2 Corinthians.
3. I believe the dispensation of the grace of God began shortly after Acts 28.
4. I believe there is one Body of Christ, made up of heirs and joint-heirs.
5. I believe the dispensation of the gospel and the dispensation of the grace of God will conclude with the Rapture of the Body.
My apology, STP, this was not the intent of this thread. The derailing continues...
I am open to being labelled whatever fits:
1. I believe the dispensation of the gospel began in Acts 9.
2. I believe a transition occurred in Acts 18, steering Paul onto his eventual course, and is hinted at in Romans and 2 Corinthians.
3. I believe the dispensation of the grace of God began shortly after Acts 28.
4. I believe there is one Body of Christ, made up of heirs and joint-heirs.
5. I believe the dispensation of the gospel and the dispensation of the grace of God will conclude with the Rapture of the Body.
My apology, STP, this was not the intent of this thread. The derailing continues...
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Where is STP who said that the dispensation of the grace of God began shortly after Acts 28?
no matter where any dispy stands, we should never forget the blessing we have to be led to our study of Acts, the revelation of the mystery and Paul's epistles. for me, that led to a better understanding of the entire Bible. i enjoy telling others, even strangers about the importance, the meaning of Paul's revelations from Christ.
i will never be a resident MAD expert here or a teacher of any real significance (seemingly, but i plant seeds. . .when i'm not kiddin'), however, if i feel inadequate or lacking in some knowledge, i can find it now, where in the past i didn't know how to even study a Bible properly (18 years ago).
i know enough to be a middle man for the gospel of our salvation, for new christians or curious folks. i know how to guide folks in the right direction, like danoh said kinda, asking questions and leading someone as long as THEY want you to, no more though.
i can quickly quote scripture and open to the good parts of the Bible that need to be expressed and that increases the interest level. i guess i'm sayin' that i feel good about my level of knowledge and i don't plan on obsessing over 28 - 9 - 2 or just after 28. or how many bodies (jerry) or who was saved or if works were needed.
i know the answers to most of these redundant lines of threads and questioning and you all do too !!!
i will never be a resident MAD expert here or a teacher of any real significance (seemingly, but i plant seeds. . .when i'm not kiddin'), however, if i feel inadequate or lacking in some knowledge, i can find it now, where in the past i didn't know how to even study a Bible properly (18 years ago).
i know enough to be a middle man for the gospel of our salvation, for new christians or curious folks. i know how to guide folks in the right direction, like danoh said kinda, asking questions and leading someone as long as THEY want you to, no more though.
i can quickly quote scripture and open to the good parts of the Bible that need to be expressed and that increases the interest level. i guess i'm sayin' that i feel good about my level of knowledge and i don't plan on obsessing over 28 - 9 - 2 or just after 28. or how many bodies (jerry) or who was saved or if works were needed.
i know the answers to most of these redundant lines of threads and questioning and you all do too !!!
Probably respecting that this thread was not about that.
Try that sometime; you'll find your intended audience a might more respectful.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Why not?
STP thinks that one dispensation started at Acts 9 and another one started shortly after Acts 28 and they both continue today.
I want to know what evidence he can give that one started shortly after Acts 28.
But for some reason you seem to be discourging discussion on this thread which you yourself started.
Strange behavior!
question for any MADist, this may be a dumb question but how does Grace and being sealed by the Holy Spirit and the Bema seat of Christ coincide ?
being judged it says, for the actions of our earthly bodies
2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV
being judged it says, for the actions of our earthly bodies
2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV
i say Paul was met by God on the road in Acts 9 and didn't understand fully until Acts 13, even then still receiving further and later revelations from Christ/Holy Ghost. even until and perhaps after 28, Paul was still communing with God. blow this post off as my others but i'm right.
ps, i will never be an Acts 2, it smacks of Charismatics and Pentecostals, which i know
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Do you think that the dispensation of the grace of God started shortly after Acts 28 ended?
i haven't looked for that before. i never tried to pinpoint it until recently. that's why i looked at the date written on all Paul's epistles. Galatians was first. before the gospels or Acts (most all of them), Galatians as early as A.D. 49.
i don't know the exact years of his ministry and travels/prison, so it's tough for me chronologically speaking to say when the dispensation began. i believe Paul received ongoing revelations throughout his journey and imprisonment; until death. he healed and did miracles, he baptized with the Holy Ghost. Acts 19:11-12 KJV and 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 -
i can also see something new happening in
Acts 13:2 KJV -
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Perhaps I can help you understand if the dispensation of the grace of God began after or before Acts 28. Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:
"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).
"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).
"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).
The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "the grace of God," a "ministry," and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:
"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).
Since Paul speaks of this dispensational responsibility during the Acts period then it is obvious that it didn't begin until after Acts was over.
I keep asking those who say that it did not begin until after Acts to give their evidence to support that idea. But I have not received an answer yet.
heir
TOL Subscriber
The dispensation of the gospel began in Acts 9. Paul was first sent to the Jew first and also to the Greek during Acts. That does not include Paul being sent to far hence alien Gentiles. That sending was revealed much later. And when Paul revealed it, he became a prisoner of Jesus Christ for the you Gentiles, which includes all men including the you Gentiles.