ECT 3 Questions for my MAD and YEC friends

turbosixx

New member
A person becomes saved and becomes a Christian when he believes the gospel. Before anyone could be baptized with water he had to first believe:

I agree, only a believers are baptized.
Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.


By the time anyone believes he is already saved:

I don't see this in scripture. The one you quoted was before Christ's D,B &R. After the D,B &R this is how one is added to the body from Jesus himself.
Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them



Today there is only "one" baptism:

The "one" of today is the one which is performed by the Holy Spirit and not performed by men:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

Yes, when we are baptized the Holy Spirit adds us to the body of Christ.
Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.

Why did Paul still have his sins before he was baptized? Ananias tells him to wash away his sins and how does him tell him to do it? Baptism. I would suggest to you that baptism is what completed his conversion placing him IN Christ where he received the forgiveness of sins by Jesus' blood.
Acts 22:16 Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'

Water and the Spirit, just as Jesus said.
Jn. 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I said:

By the time anyone believes he is already saved.

To this you said:

I don't see this in scripture.

Then why did Paul and those with Him answer this question the way that they did?:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Be careful not to read "saved" in the sense of the evangelical who is seeking decisions out of people. Saved is part of justification. It means a person has come to terms with all the issues and answers of Romans 1-5. The realize what justification is, how it comes, why it is necessary.
 

turbosixx

New member
I said:

By the time anyone believes he is already saved.

To this you said:



Then why did Paul and those with Him answer this question the way that they did?:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

The point I'm trying to make is, water baptism completes conversion. Jesus said make disciples baptizing them. This passages supports what Jesus instructed and the apostles following his word.

Paul doesn't say "all" you have to do is believe. Believing the gospel is the first step, if one doesn't believe they will not want to become a Christian by being baptized into Christ and they will be lost. The jailer was baptized.

Acts 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

After hearing the gospel he believed and was baptized agreeing with the words of Jesus.
Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The point I'm trying to make is, water baptism completes conversion. Jesus said make disciples baptizing them. This passages supports what Jesus instructed and the apostles following his word.

Paul doesn't say "all" you have to do is believe. Believing the gospel is the first step, if one doesn't believe they will not want to become a Christian by being baptized into Christ and they will be lost. The jailer was baptized.

Acts 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

After hearing the gospel he believed and was baptized agreeing with the words of Jesus.
Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.


I agree, as does Paul---

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

As does Peter---

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
LA
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
You are using scattered incidents to construct a doctrine. There is nothing consistent about them. In ch 2 they are told to be baptized but the Spirit comes whether they are or not.

It is not human steps or actions or the right response that saves. Christ's work saves. We are saved by works. Christ's. There are a number of responses after that and to that which are just fine.
 
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