ECT 2Co 5:16 What does it mean to you?

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I Love This! I'll respond more tomorrow!

Look forward to it.

This is one of the most wonderful passages of scripture!

Paul was known to be a traveling "tent maker". A beautiful point about this matter is that the desert "Tabernacle" was a tent. It was collapsed and moved "throughout" the journey's of post Exodus Israel.

I buried a verse by verse contextual and cross referenced work up to (2 Cor. 5:16) in the following spoiler format. I created it to gather the sharpest articulation of what 2 Cor. 5:16 means to me, possible for me.

Spoiler

The first four verses (2 Cor. 5:1-4) build on an allegory or analogy of our "Fleshly" bodies being like temporary, Earthly tents that cause us to cry out in desire for our "heavenly" tents.

The following four verses (2 Cor. 5:4-8) emphasize that the "Spirit of Messiah" (Rm. 8:9) that indwells our "groaning" tents is a sort of "guaranty" or "Promise" that we will inherit those "heavenly" "tents" as surely as Christ displayed His before the ascension we "watch" in the first chapter of Acts.

The next three verses (2 Cor. 5:9-11) can be absolute crack-cocaine to the works based group... because it speaks of the "judgment seat" of Christ and "evaluation" of "good" or "bad" works. Yet, Paul has already eluded to death that is "symbolized" by baptism. We "die" and the "work" of Jesus "stands" in our place. In this allegory... analogy... we see that the Spirit of Christ dwells in us and the "flesh" of Christ surrounds us like a "Wedding Garment". The catch is that per Verses (2 Cor. 1-4) we see that in the eyes of carnal wisdom, we are still trapped in these "groaning" tents.

The. ... "alive but dead"... "dead but alive" verbiage really begins to... wait for it...

flesh out now... #pun

The next verses that lead up to the "excellent talking point" really deserve individual attention.

(2 Cor. 5:12) directly addresses the idea that this scriptural passage is an answer to those who "boast" in... appearance (flesh)... (their temporary... groaning tent)... and not heart (Christ Eph. 3:17... which results in John 14 - 16 & 1 John)

(2 Cor. 5:13) colorfully insinuates that we sound "MAD" (or crazy) for God, but keep a "sound mind" to have an answer for those who need it for themselves or to answer others.

(2 Cor. 5:14-15) Contains the inspiration for one of the greatest horror movie lines ever spoken... while... back to the point... uses the word "power" (Love) in a way that eludes to (1 Cor. 1:17). We judge no one, because to us... the metaphorically dead in carnal flesh though alive in Christ... view all as dead but alive, because Christ Loves and died for ALL and rose again for ALL.

Now...

Our (temples) of God 1 Cor. 3:16, are perishing. To work on them is absolutely fruitless. To judge other people's (temples) by their (fleshly) righteous or visible presence of (sin) is foolishness. Our (Tents) are temporary and we have the (1 Cor. 15) assurance (Guarantee) of having the sinless type body of Christ (2 Cor. 5:4-5) after death, or upon witnessing the final "Day of the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) & (Luke 23:43).

We have biblical revelation of the presence of God (John 1:14) and a hint at what our "heavenly" "temples" will be. (Lk. 24:30-31). But... now... the Spirt of Christ dwells within us (Romans 8:9: John 14:15-31, 15:12), though we do not have the physical presence of YHWH with us as we read about in the Gospels and Acts 1 (Acts 1:1-12). We see to Christ within our hearts and towards the "Hope" of Christ within ALL humanity, while overlooking the state of ALL human flesh.

We are merely beggars (Mt. 18:27), declared royalty(1 John 3:1), by the King of kings (Revelation 19:16), that are blessed to share "The Kings Bread" (Lk. 22:19), that other beggars like ourselves might share in our joy (Mt. 6:19-21)

The greatest part... is that the presence of our King will be with us one day (Revelation 21:22 & Zechariah 14:4)

 

[john w]

Clarification: Followers of Christ, after the flesh, i.e., during His earthly ministry, and his associated teachings, the proverbial "teachings of Jesus" reference? The Lord Jesus Christ, while on earth, taught only what His Father told Him to teach, which included the law.

Or, followers of Christ, the Christ , "Lord from heaven"(1 Cor. 15:47 KJV), as revealed to the apostle of the Gentiles(Romans 11:13 KJV),Paul, from that same heaven, by following Paul, as following Paul, is following Christ, in this dispensation?

Paul, on direct orders from the risen, glorified, ascended, seated Lord Jesus, from heaven, says we are no longer to know Christ, after the flesh, i.e, obeying Him in his commands, while on earth, and only "knowing him" in His state of humiliation:


2 Corinthians 5:16 KJV Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.


We are to follow Paul by direct orders from the Lord Jesus Christ-following Paul, is following the risen, ascended, glorified, and seated Lord Jesus Christ, in this dispensation, for that is following the Lord Jesus Christ:

"Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me." 1 Cor. 4:16 KJV

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." 1 Cor. 11:1 KJV

"Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample." Philippians 3:17 KJV

"Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you." Philippians 4:9 KJV

We are not to follow "Jesus" after the flesh, "the footsteps of Christ",in his ministry to Israel, on earth, as He followed the law, and we cannot, nor does the LORD God desire you/us to. We are to follow Him as revealed to the apostle Paul, by revelation, as the risen, ascended, and glorified Lord Jesus Christ, "the Lord from heaven"-1 Cor. 15:47 KJV-again:

"Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.:" The Holy Bible 2 Cor. 5:16 KJV


But most reject the Lord Jesus Christ's commands in this dispensation. They have been shown. No insanity plea will be accepted at the judgment seat of Christ, or the great white throne judgment.

The rebellious heart of men/continues, as just as the Israelites "withstood Moses"(2 Timothy 3:8 KJV) throughout his God ordained/appointed office, and most rejected him, so it is today, as most reject Paul's appointed office. And so it goes, as Eccl. 1:9 KJV comes full circle, and is fulfilled.

Rebels....every last one of them...

I know, I know...."I follow 'Jesus,' my dear misguided John W, and I want everyone to know it....!!"

No you don't-He is in the third heaven.


Hmpphhh.....

 

[patrick jane]

saint john w is on fire - for the Lord

 

[Danoh]

"Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more" (2 Cor.5:16).​

Paul is saying that after he was converted he no longer evaluated people according to their outward appearance, and telling those in the church at Corinth that they should not either. Before, when Paul had opposed the Lord Jesus and His followers He only knew Jesus "after the flesh," meaning from a worldly point of view. It is only after a person is converted can he really know the Lord and the blessings which flow to believers as a result of His death upon the Cross.

In the verse which follows when Paul uses the words "old things have passed away" he is referring to the old way of evaluating people, that is, according to their outward appearance:

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (2 Cor.5:17).​

At least that is the way I understand these verses. But I will admit that this passage is difficult to interpret and any other view on its meaning will be welcomed.

Thanks!

But for that last sentence, your above is my understanding also. In chapters both before and after that one, Paul is talking about the perspective, frame of reference, or point of view the Believer is to evaluate things from.

Nicely put, Jer - saved me the trouble

 

[john w]

saint john w is on fire - for the Lord

Thanks, PJ! I am quite brilliant, at times, and even amaze myself. But my humility is even more amazing.

saint John "House" W

 

[Danoh]

What the hell????
This has nothing to do with a restoration of Israel in the future.
If you are going to start this crap in this thread, I will have you removed.

You can report him at 1-800-SAN-FORD (trolling, ur, roaming charges apply) :chuckle:

 

[Right Divider]

2Cor 5:16 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more. ​

Does anyone else notice the little bit of irony in Paul's statement here?

 

[musterion]

2Cor 5:16 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more. ​

Does anyone else notice the little bit of irony in Paul's statement here?

Since he never laid eyes on Christ in the flesh (so far as we know; even if he had Paul did not "know" Him), the 'we' is speaking of Jews generally?

 

[Danoh]

Since he never laid eyes on Christ in the flesh (so far as we know; even if he had Paul did not "know" Him), the 'we' is speaking of Jews generally?

A thought - He may have both heard of, and seen him; being that Paul had been a devout Jew who would have gone to Jerusalem for the various annual Feasts, just as Jesus and the Twelve would have.

There is much that can be figured out about such things through the Law; as it had so regimented so many aspects of their life, that it is very often a case of simply asking "seeing as their Law had so impacted so much of every detail of their day to day; what might considering my question in light of that reveal?" Isaiah 8:20.

Note: these kinds of questions, asked in the above way I have suggested, open up way more from within The Scripture Itself, than googling and endless books "about" ever will.

Remember...

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Acts 20:16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.

They were People...of The BOOK, bro.

 

[Right Divider]

Since he never laid eyes on Christ in the flesh (so far as we know; even if he had Paul did not "know" Him), the 'we' is speaking of Jews generally?

Yes, I believe that is the case. And if Paul is using the "we" to refer to his kinsmen in the flesh, we should be careful to understand it in that context.

 

[Right Divider]

A thought - He may have both heard of, and seen him; being that Paul had been a devout Jew who would have gone to Jerusalem for the various annual Feasts, just as Jesus and the Twelve would have.

You would certainly think that if Paul had ever meet Jesus in the flesh, it would be mentioned somewhere in the scripture.

 

[Danoh]

Yes, I believe that is the case. And if Paul is using the "we" to refer to his kinsmen in the flesh, we should be careful to understand it in that context.

He said "no man." He mentioned Christ within that category - "no man" including Christ Himself.

His overall scope before, during, and after that chapter is his attempt at a contrast between the physical and the spiritual as one's focus.

He is talking about two different perspectives - the physical that the fleshly focuses on and that the Corinthians remain stuck in, and the invisible or spiritual that he is attempting to lead them into looking at things from.

 

[Danoh]

You would certainly think that if Paul had ever meet Jesus in the flesh, it would be mentioned somewhere in the scripture.

May have seen and met, are not the same thing.

Just as misreading into another's words, and taking said misreading as having been their intent, are not the same thing.

I suspect this is why even MADs end up at a different understanding of some things at times.

Don't misread this, now :chuckle:

 

[Right Divider]

He said "no man." He mentioned Christ within that category - "no man" including Christ Himself.

His overall scope before, during, and after that chapter is his attempt at a contrast between the physical and the spiritual as one's focus.

He is talking about two different perspectives - the physical that the fleshly focuses on and that the Corinthians remain stuck in, and the invisible or spiritual that he is attempting to lead them into looking at things from.

I agree.

 

[Right Divider]

May have seen and met, are not the same thing.

Just as misreading into another's words, and taking said misreading as having been their intent, are not the same thing.

I suspect this is why even MADs end up at a different understanding of some things at times.

Don't misread this, now :chuckle:

You would certainly think that if Paul had ever seen Jesus in the flesh, it would be mentioned somewhere in the scripture.

 

[Danoh]

You would certainly think that if Paul had ever seen Jesus in the flesh, it would be mentioned somewhere in the scripture.

Sounds like "the lost years of Jesus" argument of years ago :chuckle:

 

[heir]

2 Corinthians 5:16 KJV
(16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.


What does no longer knowing Christ after the flesh mean to you?

We don't know Christ by what he did in His earthly ministry when He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24 KJV) as a minister of the Circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers (Romans 15:8 KJV).

We know Him as the risen, glorified Lord who appeared to the apostle Paul (Acts 26:16 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV) with a mystery gospel (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV, Galatians 1:11-12 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), doctrine (1 Timothy 1:3 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:2 KJV 2 Timothy 4:2 KJV , duty (1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV, 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV) and destination (Ephesians 2:6 KJV, Philippians 3:20-21 KJV, Colossians 3:1-4 KJV to us (Romans 11:13 KJV, Ephesians 3:1-9 KJV), the church, which is Christ's Body (Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV, Colossians 1:24 KJV).

 

[Right Divider]

Sounds like "the lost years of Jesus" argument of years ago :chuckle:

Not even close.

 

[Right Divider]

We don't know Christ by what he did in His earthly ministry when He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24 KJV) as a minister of the Circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers (Romans 15:8 KJV).

We know Him as the risen, glorified Lord who appeared to the apostle Paul (Acts 26:16 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV) with a mystery gospel (Romans 16:25-27 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV, Galatians 1:11-12 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), doctrine (1 Timothy 1:3 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:2 KJV 2 Timothy 4:2 KJV , duty (1 Corinthians 1:21 KJV, 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV) and destination (Ephesians 2:6 KJV, Philippians 3:20-21 KJV, Colossians 3:1-4 KJV to us (Romans 11:13 KJV, Ephesians 3:1-9 KJV), the church, which is Christ's Body (Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV, Colossians 1:24 KJV).

:thumb:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

You would certainly think that if Paul had ever seen Jesus in the flesh, it would be mentioned somewhere in the scripture.

Wasn't he having a vision problem... when he had the chance?

# I'm being silly.

The "Man Caught up into the third heaven" reference is too vague to actually assert any other assumption than your accurate verbiage on this matter.