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Where in the bible does it say Adam died spiritually that day? And where does God say, "If you eat of the wrong tree, you will die spiritually"? Rather, He said, "If you eat of the wrong tree, ...you will die the death." Or "...dying thou dost die." Or "...you will surely die." I couldn't find...

I know, right? Why did God make such a big deal about Jesus dying. Is death a punishment? Genesis 2:17 KJV — But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Sounds like one to me. But let's just say...

Are you saying death is not a curse or a suffering? Or are you saying God originally planned for us all to die? Calling it names doesn't really make the doctrine any more or less true. I don't hold to the part of original sin where nobody has the ability to respond to the gospel unless God...

You would have hated the original Hebrew (no vowels or punctuation or chapter or verse) or Greek (no punctuation, chapter, or verse), if you don't like missing the paragraphs.

I never said they were. Remember this thread is about accountability, right? About whether someone might receive punishment for something they didn't understand they were doing wrong? I'm saying there's more to it, since some (babies) receive punishment for something they didn't even do. Until...

You can dance around the fact all day long, but you just keep reiterating my point--babies die because of Adam's sin. If Adam had not sinned, both he and everyone else who never sinned would probably still be alive. Since it's not recorded history, I don't know if that's how it would work, but...

And humans die because of Adam's sin. Therefore, if C (babies die) was the result of B (humans die), and B was the result of A (Adam's sin), then C resulted from A. Why is this concept so difficult? Don't add other concepts, let's just deal with this one: babies die because Adam sinned.

I never said they deserved it. Show me where, if you think I did. But if you can extrapolate my words to think I believe the babies are somehow morally culpable, despite the fact I argued against it to both you and @marke, it makes me wonder where else you've extrapolated meaning well beyond its...

I can see you don't like where we ended up, that a baby dies because of someone else's sin, but let's probe deeper. All those animals you've mentioned also die as a result of Adam's sin. And while an animal can sin to a point deserving of death, mostly we don't think they sin, right? But they...

Thank you. That's what I was saying. Therefore the innocent die because of someone else's sin.

Because babies die, and death is the result of sin. If it's not the baby's sin, then it must be someone else's.

Then you believe as I do...that we die because of someone's sin other than our own.

I didn't say they did. I said we all die due to our ancestor Adam's sin. Is there a reason you can't acknowledge that, just like @Clete can't seem to?

Because of Adam's sin. We all are subject to death because of Adam's sin. All of us. No assumptions needed. Death is the wages of sin, it's not what God originally designed for us. Everyone, as expressed above, is subject to death, or death is appointed unto everyone, because of Adam's sin...

You didn't deal with any of my examples. How about you just deal with the death of David's son. David deserved death, according to the law. Instead, he was allowed to live, and his innocent newborn sin died--because of David's sin. I have no doubt that God is just. But I doubt whether we...

It's a little funny that you say that after I showed something that refuted it. If the wages of sin is death, and someone dies, then it must be the result of someone's sin. If a baby dies in the womb, before he has a chance to sin, then it must be because of someone else's sin, not the baby's...

2 Samuel 12:13-14 KJV — And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die. Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is...

Didn't the Levites pay tithes to Melchizedek in Abraham? Didn't the offspring of DAVID become kings because David was king--they sat on their father David's throne? Weren't Saul's sons disrnthroned because of Saul's sons? Didn't David's first son with Bathsheba die SPECIFICALLY because of...

If we're going by the scriptural usage, believing is not a work in the same sense that keeping the law was. Which should we go by, the current dictionary, or scriptural usage? But we should consider other sources that are closer to the time of the scriptures. Here's the Webster 1828 dictionary...

Depends on whether that someone made a mistake or not.