Jesus is God

[JudgeRightly]

However, no human can redeem himself

Jesus did not need to be redeemed, since He was without sin.

You're right, and I'd like to correct what I said.

What I meant to say was that "No human can redeem another man."

Hebrews 4:15 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

:thumb:

That passage is saying that earthly wealth cannot be used to buy eternal life.

Psalm 49:6-10 6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; 7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him: 8 (For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever: ) 9 That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption. 10 For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person perish, and leave their wealth to others.

Do you think that there is anything that can be used to buy eternal life (Apart from Christ's blood, of course)?
In other words, do you think that there is anything man can do to save himself, let alone someone else?

You are almost there, but your conclusion does not follow because "the Savior had to be BOTH man and God" is not taught by the Bible

That IS the conclusion, and the only logical one, based on what the Bible says.

but another answer to the problem is taught by the Bible.

We are not redeemed with the silver and gold (mentioned in the passage from Psalm 49 you quoted).
We are redeemed with the blood of Jesus Christ who was without blemish and without spot (without sin).

1 Peter 1:17-21 17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Jesus had to be slain in order to provide the blood that redeemed us.

Revelation 5:9 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Jesus was with God before the foundation of the world, but He did not come because God wanted a sacrifice, He came because God wanted someone who would do His will.

Question for clarification, do you think Jesus was a man, an angel, or some other form of creature (ie, created being), or perhaps some other being that was NOT created? (It would be irresponsible for me to respond to anything else in your post until you answer this question.)

Hebrews 10:5-9 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

When it came time for Jesus to sacrifice Himself, He prayed for God to remove that command, but said that He would obey God's will in the matter.

Luke 22:41-42 41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 42 Saying, [JESUS]Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.[/JESUS]

Jesus was obedient unto death, and it is that obedience that is the reason that God highly exalted Jesus.

Philippians 2:5-11 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus did not need to be God Himself in order to redeem us, Jesus only needed to be completely obedient to the will of God.

Romans 5:19 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

We are made righteous by the obedience of Jesus, who was obedient unto death on the cross.
And because of His obedience, Jesus is now able to stand as a mediator between God an men.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Now, if you want to believe the Savior had to be BOTH man and God in order to redeem us, that is your choice, but it is not taught by the Bible.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Another indication of His deity.

And I do not deny the deity of the Son of God.

Maybe the problem is that you don't understand that the Son of a deity can also be a deity?

 

[God's Truth]

:rotfl: :dizzy:

There is only one God, and He is the Father. Since there is only one God and He is the Father, then Jesus is that one God the Father come as a Son.


1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.


Read those two scriptures more carefully; they show that the one and only God is the Father and so is Jesus Christ.

WRONG... The doctrine of the trinity is simply a recognition of what the Bible teaches throughout.

The trinity doctrine not only changes a SINGULAR word 'God' to make it plural, the trinity doctrine also claims the Bible does too. But there is no such thing.

Three different Persons doesn't make one God. One Person makes one God.

The trinity doctrine teaches (as does the Bible) that there is ONE God.

The trinity doctrine teaches that God is a combination of three DIFFERENT and SEPARATE PERSONS making a God.

No such thing as three different Person's making one God. God is ONE and there is NO ONE like HIM, 'HIM" singular, not two other Persons.

We agree that God came in the flesh as a man. That is ALL completely compatible with the doctrine of the trinity.

There is only One God, not three different Persons making a one God.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I am not missing the point of the verses, which is that Jesus was telling the person to obey the commandments of God.

Which is completely irrelevant to what I'm asking.

Why are you avoiding answering my question?

Regarding the rich young ruler, was he or was he not correct in calling Jesus "good"?

 

[God's Truth]

And I do not deny the deity of the Son of God.

Maybe the problem is that you don't understand that the Son of a deity can also be a deity?

There is only One. Jesus must be that one and only Deity.

 

[JudgeRightly]

And I do not deny the deity of the Son of God.

Then your position is self-contradictory.

Maybe the problem is that you don't understand that the Son of a deity can also be a deity?

Sorry, but maybe the problem is that you don't understand that "deity" refers to being God. The Bible teaches that there is only ONE true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

If Jesus is NOT that God, then he is no god at all, for God said "I alone am God, there is none beside Me."

Deity: a god or goddess (in a polytheistic religion). "a deity of ancient Greece" Similar: god goddess divine being celestial being supreme being divinity immortal creator demiurge godhead daemon numen avatar divine status, quality, or nature. "a ruler driven by delusions of deity" the creator and supreme being (in a monotheistic religion such as Christianity). noun: Deity; noun: the Deity a representation of a god or goddess, such as a statue or carving.

 

[God's Truth]

Straw man. Elohim is a plural Hebrew word that is usually translated as "God".


"God" is ambiguous regarding number, Moses is identified as of Elohim in the last verse of Exodus 19 and first two of Exodus 20.

Stay focused now. The word 'God' or 'god' is SINGULAR; and, the Person who is God is singular, and so is the person who is a 'god' is singular.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Do you think that there is anything that can be used to buy eternal life (Apart from Christ's blood, of course)?
In other words, do you think that there is anything man can do to save himself, let alone someone else?

I am sure Jesus was correct about that.

Matthew 19:16-17 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, [JESUS]Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.[/JESUS]

That IS the conclusion, and the only logical one, based on what the Bible says.

"the Savior had to be BOTH man and God" is a conclusion, but it is not the only one, it is not very logical, and it is not really based on what the Bible says since it is based more on suppositions and inferences.

Question for clarification, do you think Jesus was a man, an angel, or some other form of creature (ie, created being), or perhaps some other being that was NOT created? (It would be irresponsible for me to respond to anything else in your post until you answer this question.)

Are you willing to accept what the Bible clearly states about it?

Acts 2:22 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Hebrews 1:1-2 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 1:4 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Hebrews 2:9 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

I can find a verse that says Jesus was a man
I can find a verse that says Jesus was made much better than the angels
I can find a verse that says Jesus was made lower than the angels

I cannot find any verses that say Jesus was an angel, but I can find many verses that say Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:16-18 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If I am able to accept what the Bible clearly says, and I believe that Jesus is the Son of God as the Bible clearly says, but I find myself unable to an extra-Biblical doctrine that says that God is His own Son and God is His own Father, should I be beaten down by people who do believe that doctrine to the point that I stop believing the Bible at all?

 

[Right Divider]

And I do not deny the deity of the Son of God.

Deity means GOD... i.e., the ONE and ONLY God.

Maybe the problem is that you don't understand that the Son of a deity can also be a deity?

The Bible says that there is ONE DEITY.

The other "gods" are false gods.

Jesus created ALL THINGS... i.e., He is God.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Which is completely irrelevant to what I'm asking.

Why are you avoiding answering my question?

Regarding the rich young ruler, was he or was he not correct in calling Jesus "good"?

Your question is missing the point of the verse, taking it out of context and inflating the importance of the words beyond anything reasonable, that is why there is no reason to answer it.
The point is that the man was asking Jesus for an alternative to keeping the commandments of God and Jesus corrected the man by telling him to keep the commandments of God.

 

[Theo102]

Regarding the rich young ruler, was he or was he not correct in calling Jesus "good"?

Context is relevant here, he called him "good master", which doesn't encompass the idea that "I and my Father are one".

 

[Right Divider]

I am sure Jesus was correct about that.

Matthew 19:16-17 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, [JESUS]Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.[/JESUS]

Joh 14:15 KJV If ye love me, keep my commandments.
​

 

[genuineoriginal]

There is only One. Jesus must be that one and only Deity.

The Bible teaches that there are other Gods, but that the people who worship the Father are to worship only Him as God.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Exodus 20:3 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

 

[God's Truth]

The Bible teaches that there are other Gods, but that the people who worship the Father are to worship only Him as God.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Exodus 20:3 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Those other gods are not deity.

 

[Bright Raven]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say 'God' is a plural of Persons.

God is singular and Jesus is that one and only God come as a man.

The Holy Spirit isn't another Person with a Spirit that God the Father and Jesus share.

Oops, did you forget this?

​​​​​​ [h=1]Genesis 1:26 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)[/h]
²⁶ Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness. They will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, the whole earth, and the creatures that crawl on the earth.”

 

[Bright Raven]

That's blatanty false. In Genesis 1:26-27 it is implied that Elohim has both male and female physical form, yet the female physical form is absent from the doctrine of the Trinity.

:loser:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Then your position is self-contradictory.

Not at all.

Sorry, but maybe the problem is that you don't understand that "deity" refers to being God.

Not quite, "deity" refers to being a god.

The Bible teaches that there is only ONE true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Yes, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the only true God, the Father.
Jesus is the Son of God, which makes Him a deity as well.

If Jesus is NOT that God, then he is no god at all, for God said "I alone am God, there is none beside Me."

We are never commanded to worship Jesus as a god, but Jesus true worshipers will worship the Father.

John 4:23 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Deity: a god or goddess (in a polytheistic religion). divine status, quality, or nature. the creator and supreme being (in a monotheistic religion such as Christianity). noun: Deity; noun: the Deity a representation of a god or goddess, such as a statue or carving.

Jesus is a god due to being the Son of God as well as being elevated higher than the angels by God which grants Jesus divine status.

Either there is only one God and all the others are nothing as Paul stated, or there are many gods and we only worship one God, the Father, as Paul stated.

1 Corinthians 8:4-6 4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Monolatry is belief that many gods exist, but that only one of them is worshipped Monotheism is the belief in only one god

If you have to believe in the Trinity because you can only believe in one god, then you have to discount many verses in the Bible that show that there are other gods.

Exodus 18:11 11 Now I know that the Lord is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.

Psalm 82:1 1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Deity means GOD... i.e., the ONE and ONLY God.


The Bible says that there is ONE DEITY.

The other "gods" are false gods.

How do you suppose that God is judging among the gods if they are false gods?

Psalm 82:1 1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Those other gods are not deity.

If they are gods, then by definition they are deity, since deity is just another word for god.

 

[Clete]

Wrong. The English translation uses the ambiguous term "God" as a translation of Elohim. There's no "He" in the original text.

The point is that when people say "The Bible teaches X", what they're doing is using the cultural taboo of criticising the Bible to make their interpretation of their version of the text appear to be more authoritative.

:rotfl:

So you are here to tell us that the bible does not teach that God created the heavens and the earth!


:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

To what extent will these fools go to protect their pet doctrines?!
Why bother to even read the bible much less call yourself a Christian?