Right Divider
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No...
Jesus is God
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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Matthew 26:36-44New American Standard Bible (NASB)
36 Then Jesus *came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and *said to His disciples, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37 And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be grieved and distressed. 38 Then He *said to them, “My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me.”
39 And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.” 40 And He *came to the disciples and *found them sleeping, and *said to Peter, “So, you men could not keep watch with Me for one hour? 41 Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
42 He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, “My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Your will be done.” 43 Again He came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. 44 And He left them again, and went away and prayed a third time, saying the same thing once more.
If Jesus were God why would he be praying to God?
36 Then Jesus *came with them to a place called Gethsemane, and *said to His disciples, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37 And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be grieved and distressed. 38 Then He *said to them, “My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me.”
39 And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.” 40 And He *came to the disciples and *found them sleeping, and *said to Peter, “So, you men could not keep watch with Me for one hour? 41 Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
42 He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, “My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Your will be done.” 43 Again He came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. 44 And He left them again, and went away and prayed a third time, saying the same thing once more.
If Jesus were God why would he be praying to God?
God's Truth
New member
The word 'God', 'LORD', 'Christ' is interchangeable, as shown in many scriptures.
The names of God, such as ‘Father’, 'Redeemer', 'Savior', 'Holy One', Rock, the First and the Last, the King of kings, the Lord of lords, those are all the names God.
Jesus is given all the names the Father has.
Could you think about something carefully so we can discuss further?
Christ, LORD, and God are names used interchangeably because they are the same.
God came as Jesus Christ.
The word 'Christ' is interchangeable with the word 'God', 'Christ', and 'Lord'.
All these scriptures I am going to give, they are concerning the time in the desert with Moses:
Read this first scripture, it is Paul saying 'Christ' when talking about the time with Moses in the desert:
1 Corinthians 10:9 We should not test Christ, as some of them did--and were killed by snakes.
That scripture shows us that Christ was in the desert with Moses.
This next scripture is Moses speaking about TESTING THE LORD:
Exodus 17:2 Therefore the people quarreled with Moses and said, "Give us water that we may drink." And Moses said to them, "Why do you quarrel with me? Why do you test the LORD?"
Now read this scripture:
Psalm 106:14
But craved intensely in the wilderness, And tempted God in the desert.
Did you read that?
Test who in the desert?
So we see that the word 'Christ', 'LORD', and 'God' are interchangeable.
Psalm 95:9
"When your fathers tested Me, They tried Me, though they had seen My work.
For those who say Paul didn’t mean Christ was tempted in the desert, show them how Paul says the Rock in the desert was Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ
Show how the Gentiles were without Christ when they did not come into the covenant with God even before Jesus came. See Ephesians 2:12.
John 17:6-8 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; 8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.
So as we can see, Jesus was GIVEN everything he had! This all included miracles, doctrine etc. Basically Jesus did not do anything of his own, he never performed a miracle by his own power, he was given the miracles. He never taught anything of his own, rather he was taught by God and spoke what God told him to speak.
John 7:16New American Standard Bible (NASB)
So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
John 8:26New American Standard Bible (NASB)
I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world.”
John 14:24New American Standard Bible (NASB)
He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.
So everything Jesus had was from God, from the Gospel to his miracles. God needs no one to give him power, God needs no one to tell him what to do, therefore Jesus is not God.
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; 8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.
So as we can see, Jesus was GIVEN everything he had! This all included miracles, doctrine etc. Basically Jesus did not do anything of his own, he never performed a miracle by his own power, he was given the miracles. He never taught anything of his own, rather he was taught by God and spoke what God told him to speak.
John 7:16New American Standard Bible (NASB)
So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
John 8:26New American Standard Bible (NASB)
I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world.”
John 14:24New American Standard Bible (NASB)
He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.
So everything Jesus had was from God, from the Gospel to his miracles. God needs no one to give him power, God needs no one to tell him what to do, therefore Jesus is not God.
God's Truth
New member
...because God really came as a man. Who but God the Father in heaven should man pray to?
God's Truth
New member
God really came as a man named Jesus, who came to show us the way. Who else but God the Father should man pray to?
Right Divider
Body part
Because Jesus is God in the flesh praying to His Father, who is also God.
Your "proofs" are childish and immature.
Right Divider
Body part
Like I said, childish and immature.
Aren't you breaking the forum rules?
Right Divider
Body part
Nope.
You seem to think that Jesus is God....actually I think the evidence shows Jesus is not even the Messiah or Christ.
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.
Did Jesus do this? NO!
But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Did Jesus do this? NO!
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Has Jesus made this happen? NO!
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Has Jesus gathered the Twelve tribes of Israel? NO!
And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
Is Jesus sitting on the throne in the tabernacle of David? NO!
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely:
Is Jesus a King executing justice in the earth? Are Judah and Israel dwelling in safety? NO!
I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour.
Has iniquity been removed? Is every man a neighbor? NO!
Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
Did Jesus build the Temple and sit upon his throne? NO!
But the humble will inherit the land
And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity.
For the arms of the wicked will be broken,
But the Lord sustains the righteous.
The Lord knows the days of the blameless,
And their inheritance will be forever.
They will not be ashamed in the time of evil,
And in the days of famine they will have abundance.
But the wicked will perish;
And the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures,
They vanish—like smoke they vanish away.
Has this happened? NO!
“Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the Lord, have spoken and done it,” declares the Lord.’”
Has this happened? NO!
And many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”
For the law will go forth from Zion
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
Has this happened? NO!
They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Has this happened? NO!
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.
Did Jesus do this? NO!
But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Did Jesus do this? NO!
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Has Jesus made this happen? NO!
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Has Jesus gathered the Twelve tribes of Israel? NO!
And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
Is Jesus sitting on the throne in the tabernacle of David? NO!
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely:
Is Jesus a King executing justice in the earth? Are Judah and Israel dwelling in safety? NO!
I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour.
Has iniquity been removed? Is every man a neighbor? NO!
Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
Did Jesus build the Temple and sit upon his throne? NO!
But the humble will inherit the land
And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity.
For the arms of the wicked will be broken,
But the Lord sustains the righteous.
The Lord knows the days of the blameless,
And their inheritance will be forever.
They will not be ashamed in the time of evil,
And in the days of famine they will have abundance.
But the wicked will perish;
And the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures,
They vanish—like smoke they vanish away.
Has this happened? NO!
“Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the Lord, have spoken and done it,” declares the Lord.’”
Has this happened? NO!
And many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”
For the law will go forth from Zion
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
Has this happened? NO!
They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Has this happened? NO!
Right Divider
Body part
So you think that just because He did not do this during His first coming, that it cannot happen in the future?
Your childish handling of the scripture if extremely immature.
This is a CHRISTIAN forum. If you continue to blaspheme the Lord it is you that will be banned here.
Are you waiting for Jesus to return?
Jesus promised that he would return.
Many people have high hopes that Jesus will return because he promised.
But to understand Jesus' promise to return we have to evaluate his promise based on our understanding of other promises that Jesus made.
John 10:16 (New American Standard Bible)
"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.
Is the Christian Church “one flock” or is it a myriad of competing sects, cults, and denominations?
John 12:32 (New American Standard Bible)
"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."
A billion Muslims testify that this did not happen.
Mark 10:29-30 (New American Standard Bible)
Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel's sake, but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life.
“in the present age” Houses? Farms? Is this true?
John 14:12 (New American Standard Bible)
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
Can you walk on water, feed 5,000 with couple of fish and loaves, and raise the dead?
John 14:13-14 (New American Standard Bible)
"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
"If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.
Really?
God's Truth
New member
Jesus has already done all that.
Did I miss all this happening....I prefer to deal with reality.
God's Truth
New member
Of course, it is possible to miss.
7djengo7
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Are you asking whether we're convinced that the 'stu' part of your screen handle, 'Lilstu', is cognate with another TOL screen handle, 'Stuu', as well as with the word, 'stupid'? Hmmm. Interesting question.
Now, when you say, "God Tells Peter That Jesus Is NOT God", to whom (if anyone) are you referring by your use of the word, "God"? Are you telling us that "[God the Father] Tells Peter That Jesus Is NOT [God the Father]"?
- If you are telling us that, then so what? In that case, you're doing no more than preaching to the Trinitarian choir.
- If you are not telling us that, then what (if anything) are you trying to tell us?
7djengo7
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To whom (if anyone) are you referring by your use of the word, "God", here, when you say, "If Jesus were God why would he be praying to God?"
Are you asking, "If Jesus were [God the Father] why would he be praying to [God the Father]?"
If you're not asking that, then what (if anything) are you asking?
7djengo7
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Since for a person to pray is for that person to communicate with another (a second) person, are you saying, "Don't you think it is silly to [communicate with another person] to yourself?" If so, could you explain what (if anything) you imagine it would be "to [communicate with another person] to yourself?"