the apocalypse
- Thread starter chrysostom
- Start date
annabenedetti
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No I'm not.
I appreciate you have a question you don't want to answer but that doesn't mean you get to mischaracterize the question.
annabenedetti
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Interesting from Fr. Miceli:
"The conference sat in judgment, in the chair of Peter not of Moses, on the Church. It preached downward to the hierarchy, scolding them, demanding a reform of their lives, and listing privileges they must give up at once
Isn't that what you do in this thread on a regular basis? Are you wrong, or was the conference wrong, or are you both right?
Reading through that entire link, and understanding that he was writing a first-person account, I don't know how reliable a narrative it is. Would another observer have a much different take? He quoted without attribution, and provided his own version of their intent, and I don't know if he was accurate. It seems to me the thread running through the narrative was that he feared for the safety of clericalism.
"The conference sat in judgment, in the chair of Peter not of Moses, on the Church. It preached downward to the hierarchy, scolding them, demanding a reform of their lives, and listing privileges they must give up at once
Isn't that what you do in this thread on a regular basis? Are you wrong, or was the conference wrong, or are you both right?
Reading through that entire link, and understanding that he was writing a first-person account, I don't know how reliable a narrative it is. Would another observer have a much different take? He quoted without attribution, and provided his own version of their intent, and I don't know if he was accurate. It seems to me the thread running through the narrative was that he feared for the safety of clericalism.
It can't be answered
so
the only question is
why do you ask it?
to get informed?
or
to embarrass the one answering it
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Don't mischaracterize me too. I'm not trying to embarrass you, I want to know what you're thinking.
You can have a belief without knowing whether or not you're right. Do you think an atheist who has lived as you think he or she ought - do they have a chance at heaven?
A traditional Catholic will say "no, absolutely not" right away.
An orthodox Catholic will say "we are to have hope."
A liberal Catholic will say "God wants all of us to go to Heaven."
annabenedetti
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As an aside: I noted in the "Jesuit rag" quote of yours I pulled up, I'd mentioned in the post you were replying to the "saintly" Jean Vanier. Since I wrote that post, sadly, I found out he was posthumously accused of sexual abuse of multiple women.
that makes me a liberal
so why do you read that jesuit rag?
annabenedetti
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annabenedetti
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I don't, generally. :chuckle: That was during your Jordan Peterson phase.
Anyway, a couple questions still unanswered, if you're willing to answer them:
I knew you had it in you.
but it doesn't answer your question
annabenedetti
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It may. It's possible that your belief is more closely aligned with 'it's not the religion that gets you to Heaven, it's the way you live your life.'
yes to the first part
and
to the second part
I am doing it after the radical takeover
they did it before
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Fair enough. They were radical ideas for the Church, and they were radical ideas for England in 1776.
So you're both right. That could be a bit uncomfortable.
No
the Church is not and never will be a democratic institution
It doesn't matter what you or anybody thinks
It is there for you to consider
take it of leave it
I am fighting for the Church and against those who intend to destroy Her
annabenedetti
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You changed the goalposts. I said you're both right in reference to the second question:
And you answered in the affirmative, that only the timing was different.
annabenedetti
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You scold the hierarchy on a regular basis in this thread, all the way up to Francis. You want the hierarchy to reform (not arguing they shouldn't). You want the laity to lead the way. You are doing the same as the radicals, only when you do it you see yourself as the right kind of radical.
yes
but
that is not being a radical
a radical actually wants to change what the Church teaches
I want to change who is doing the teaching
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Okay, fair enough, I understand what you're saying here.