What did you believe before Open Theism?

Idolater · 2026-05-07T16:15:00-0400

Bright Raven said:
What does this have to do with Open Theism?

$$ Joh 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

We all agree that believing is a free choice. Open Theism claims God cannot know in advance what our free choices are. But here Scripture says, "Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not".

Bright Raven · 2026-05-07T17:08:51-0400

Idolater said:
$$ Joh 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

We all agree that believing is a free choice. Open Theism claims God cannot know in advance what our free choices are. But here Scripture says, "Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not".

So you are not in agreement with Open Theism?

Right Divider · 2026-05-07T17:20:36-0400

Idolater said:
$$ Joh 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

We all agree that believing is a free choice. Open Theism claims God cannot know in advance what our free choices are. But here Scripture says, "Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not".

Jesus is NOT talking about some future people that were not born yet.

Jesus was talking about people that were already alive and whose minds Jesus had access to... being God.

So that does nothing to support the idea that Jesus/God knows every future choice exhaustively.

Idolater · 2026-05-07T17:40:32-0400

Bright Raven said:
So you are not in agreement with Open Theism?

Scripturally, I don't find it persuasive.

Unless RD laughs at me. Then, I would find it persuasive.

Bright Raven · 2026-05-07T18:06:11-0400

Idolater said:
Scripturally, I don't find it persuasive.

Unless RD laughs at me. Then, I would find it persuasive.

It is not scriptural. Good call.

Right Divider · 2026-05-07T19:40:21-0400

It has already been clearly demonstrated that there is TONS of Biblical support for the theory. That you two are closing your eyes and plugging your ears are your own personal problems.

Gen 22:12 (AKJV/PCE)

(22:12) And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.

Stay ignorant if that is your choice.

Bright Raven · 2026-05-07T20:28:35-0400

Right Divider said:
It has already been clearly demonstrated that there is TONS of Biblical support for the theory. That you two are closing your eyes and plugging your ears are your own personal problems.

Gen 22:12 (AKJV/PCE)
(22:12) And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.

Stay ignorant if that is your choice.

He already knew what Abraham was going to do. That is why He provided a Ram for the sacrifice in the thicket.

Derf · 2026-05-07T20:50:21-0400

Bright Raven said:
He already knew what Abraham was going to do. That is why He provided a Ram for the sacrifice in the thicket.

If He didn't already know what Abraham would do, how would God's actions have been different? And how do you know this?

For instance, Abraham might have decided not to climb the mountain, even, in which case, we would never have known whether or not there was a ram caught in the thicket, because the teller of the story was not there to see it.

Bright Raven · 2026-05-07T20:57:49-0400

Derf said:
If He didn't already know what Abraham would do, how would God's actions have been different? And how do you know this?

For instance, Abraham might have decided not to climb the mountain, even, in which case, we would never have known whether or not there was a ram caught in the thicket, because the teller of the story was not there to see it.

Duh. God had already provided the lamb.

Right Divider · 2026-05-07T21:01:57-0400

Bright Raven said:
He already knew what Abraham was going to do.

That's easy for you to CLAIM.... How about the SCRIPTURAL support?

The BIBLE says NOW I KNOW. That is knowledge gained. It is YOU that has a problem with what the Bible ACTUALLY says.

Bright Raven said:
That is why He provided a Ram for the sacrifice in the thicket.

After the fact .... so convenient for you... this is how every false teacher makes the Bible say whatever they want it to say.

Right Divider · 2026-05-07T21:03:11-0400

Bright Raven said:
Duh. God had already provided the lamb.

You don't think that God handles contingencies?

Bright Raven · 2026-05-07T21:26:17-0400

Right Divider said:
You don't think that God handles contingencies?

God is an all knowing, all powerful, all present God who loves you. Why do you question His all knowing ability. Don't you think He knew that you would come to know Him as Savior or does your Open Theism challenge Him.

Right Divider · 2026-05-07T21:31:11-0400

Bright Raven said:
God is an all knowing, all powerful, all present God who loves you. Why do you question His all knowing ability. Don't you think He knew that you would come to know Him as Savior or does your Open Theism challenge Him.

You are very silly BR.
I, unlike you, believe exactly what the Bible says.

Bright Raven · 2026-05-07T21:39:34-0400

Right Divider said:
You are very silly BR.
I, unlike you, believe exactly what the Bible says.

That is not so. I believe in omniscience and you believe in man made doctrine.

Right Divider · 2026-05-07T23:00:04-0400

Bright Raven said:
That is not so. I believe in omniscience and you believe in man made doctrine.

You read things into scripture.
I've shown you obvious scripture that argues against your position.

Bright Raven · 2026-05-07T23:40:37-0400

Right Divider said:
You read things into scripture.
I've shown you obvious scripture that argues against your position.

Who brought Open Theism to the forefront in the church?

Right Divider · 2026-05-07T23:53:10-0400

Bright Raven said:
Who brought Open Theism to the forefront in the church?

So now you're going to go off on tangents?
The Bible teaches it, so that's all I need.

Bright Raven · 2026-05-08T00:00:10-0400

Right Divider said:
So now you're going to go off on tangents?
The Bible teaches it, so that's all I need.

No, I'm asking when Open Theism came to the forefront as a doctrine. Has any denomination given a thumbs up to it. If not, why not. You are following a man made doctrine. It's UNBIBLICAL.

Right Divider · 2026-05-08T00:08:38-0400

Bright Raven said:
No, I'm asking when Open Theism came to the forefront as a doctrine.

Why does this matter? Do you think that popularity is the measure of truth?

Bright Raven said:
Has any denomination given a thumbs up to it.

Do you think that popularity determines truth,

Bright Raven said:
If not, why not.

Who cares? Do you think that popularity determines truth?

Bright Raven said:
You are following a man made doctrine. It's UNBIBLICAL.

You are wrong, but you're too stubborn and proud to admit it.

Bright Raven · 2026-05-08T00:13:56-0400

Right Divider said:
Why does this matter? Do you think that popularity is the measure of truth?

Do you think that popularity determines truth,

Who cares? Do you think that popularity determines truth?

You are wrong, but you're too stubborn and proud to admit it.

I believe what is between the covers of the Book from Genesis to Revelation. Simple as that! You don't.

What did you believe before Open Theism?

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