If that is the case, you ought to be able to refute them easily.
I can, I have, I do.
Groups of people are predestined, individuals are not, and even groups can repent, in which case, God reacts to that repentance as appropriate
Last I heard groups of people consisted of individuals.
Any individual person involved in Christ's death could have chosen not to be, including anyone on the Jewish council, Pontius Pilot or any guard, centurion or any other specific individual.
But they didn't. And not only that, but it came about exactly as God declared it would, many times over, long before it ever happened. I wonder why?
Had such occurred, God would have reacted in whatever manner was needed in order to secure His ultimate goal. Indeed, if the entire nation of Israel had seen the Light and repented and accepted Jesus as the Christ that He was, even then God could have still accomplished His goal without even needing a crucifix to do it. God could have had the High Priest perform the blood sacrifice on the alter, if need be. The point being that God predicted and even planned for but did not predestine the specifics, or at least not all of them, nor was it necessary for Him to do so in order to accomplish His goal.
God doesn't adjust His plans to fit our actions, contrary to what you believe. They didn't see the light, and they wouldn't see the light. Do you think that surprised God? Do you thing He had to come up with a plan B? He did predestine the specifics. He tells us what they were centuries before they occurred.
According to your doctrine, Poly knows only and precisely what she was predestined to know by God before Poly ever existed.
Well, that is your "complete and in depth study" of Reformed theology for you. We know what God tells us, or should, are required to learn it as children of God. That is called our responsibility. He gave us the information. He gave us the spiritual understanding, He gave us the mind--all the tools we need to hear and listen and learn and grow. It is our responsibility to obey.
You believe that Poly has the ability to act outside of what God predestined?
More evidence that you do not know what you think you know. You are still operating on the most basic misunderstanding of Reformed theology ----that it teaches that we are robots or puppets.
There is one thing I know for certain. I know your doctrine better than you do. I've studied it in considerable depth for decades. I can quote original sources if you doubt that I am depicting Calvinist doctrine accurately. I have yet to have even one single Calvinist deny that they believe these things, even when I went looking for one who would!
Wow. I feel sorry for you and you hubris. It just goes to show that either people will lie at the drop of a hat in order to prop up their obvious lack of understanding of a thing, or there is, as we all know, a vast difference in reading and studying and that of comprehension.
That's stupidity but it is also beside the point. Let's grant, for the sake of argument, that you're right and that I've "set myself up as judge, rather than Christ". We'll ignore the fact that the bible tells us to judge with righteous judgment and we'll ignore the fact that the bible teaches that we will judge the angels and we'll grant, again for the sake of argument, that not only have I set myself up as judge but that doing so is an "atrocious sin".
Do you believe then that I or Poly could have done otherwise or don't you actually believe that God predestined my every thought, word and deed before time began?
Prediction: Ariel will NOT answer that question directly.
What does the Bible say is righteous judgement? We aren't judging the angels yet. Setting yourself as a judge over someone's salvation, as Polly, and then you and others, were doing, was the subject. And as I told your alias, you all are doing so basing it on whether it agrees with what you believe or not. Not on anything to actually do with the content of the faith that saves. All I did, that started this fussy fuss fuss, is say to poke at someone's faith and confidence like that was atrocious---suggesting that maybe God was only playing some sadistic game with B57. And a Christian should know that, as that information is given to us in the scriptures. And in spite of the fact that all the self appointed judges insist that Jesus told us to judge, He also said "Judge not, lest you be judged." Now what do you suppose is the difference in the two kinds of judging? Or do you think one of those things He said is a lie?
I do not believe that you (notice you put yourself first) or Polly had no choice to do otherwise, and I do not, and of all the Calvinists I have known or read, and the Bible also, none would say that God predestines yours, Polly's or anyones every thought, word and deed. Again you are reverting to the most basic, uninformed view of Reformed theology. That we believe God made us puppets and robots. That is an incorrect view.
That isn't the point, Ariel! The point is that you CANNOT tell! That man's own family had no idea that he was BTK! Do you think that Christ Lutheran Church in Park City Kansas is in the habit of putting people on their elder board who they have reason to believe are unbelievers (much less sociopathic serial killers)? There is zero doubt that Dennis Rader has made multiple public professions of faith in Christ, been baptized, taught Sunday School classes, quoted bible verses and told people that "God giveth and God taketh away!"
Another Lutheran church in Wichita, KS , (of which Park City is a suburb) one in fact that called themselve Reformed Lutheran, also had George Tiller, king of early and late term abortions, serving in their church. They certainly knew who he was, and I think by Reformed they meant reformed from the reformation. But I digress. It could be that no one knew that Radar was a serial killer, but in order for him to be that evil, there had to be something off with Christianity in him that could be seen. "By their fruit you will know them." Is there zero doubt that he made public profession of faith in Christ? Or just zero doubt in your mind. But what he did or did not profess is beside the point. A person can say anything, and as you are infamous for: saying it doesn't make it so. Jesus and Paul and Peter and John did not tell us to watch for wolves in sheep's clothing, and false teachers coming into our midst because we couldn't do that. He told us because we could. And the only way we can discern such is if we are grounded in the doctrines of Christianity in the scriptures.
In short, Rader, in so far as his faith is concerned, would have looked just exactly the same as most any Christian you've ever met and while hindsight is 20/20 and its easy now to know he was a wolf in sheep's clothing, you could not have told that prior to February 25, 2005 when he was arrested for having murdered at least ten people.
You don't know what Radar looked like to anyone. Most likely there were some that did know something was not genuine or was creepy about him. Though to not suspect him of being a serial killer is likely and irrelevant because it is not the point. And you can't speak for me by speaking about yourself. I have spotted many wolves and false teachers who have never been arrested.
Did God predestine Dennis Rader to rape that eleven year old girl and hang her from a plumbing pipe in her basement?
Nope. That is all on BTK. Still I see, in spite of your decades of studying Reformed theology, you are prone to misstate it and in most grotesque ways.
instead of predestined I would simply say destined for hell. It is the punishment for sin, physical death and spiritual death, that is determined by God, and predetermined by necessity because of His character of perfection (perfect holiness) which includes perfect justice.
