These are NOT the same gospel

Derf

Well-known member
The gospel of the kingdom <-> the gospel of the grace of God.

The "good news" of the kingdom is about the restoration and elevation of the kingdom of Israel.
The "good news" of the grace of God is about the free gift of salvation in the present dispensation given to and through Paul.
I appreciate that the message the 12 were taking to the people of Israel was different early than what they later found out, but don't you think their message changed?
 

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I appreciate that the message the 12 were taking to the people of Israel was different early than what they later found out, but don't you think their message changed?
Nope... If you'd like to present a case for that idea, feel free.

For example, note that Peter was not preaching the cross as "good news" in Acts 2-3. He was preaching it as a murder indictment again his people/nation.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Nope... If you'd like to present a case for that idea, feel free.

For example, note that Peter was not preaching the cross as "good news" in Acts 2-3. He was preaching it as a murder indictment again his people/nation.
Understanding our sin is always necessary for repentance, Acts 2:38. But his sermon in that chapter was mostly focused on the resurrection and ascension.

Acts 3 is similar. The sin is stated clearly, but the "good news" is not the sin, but the remedy for it.
Acts 3:15 (KJV) And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 3:20 (KJV) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:26 (KJV) Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
 

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Understanding our sin is always necessary for repentance, Acts 2:38. But his sermon in that chapter was mostly focused on the resurrection and ascension.

Acts 3 is similar. The sin is stated clearly, but the "good news" is not the sin, but the remedy for it.
Acts 3:15 (KJV) And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 3:20 (KJV) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:26 (KJV) Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Yes, like I said... no "preaching the cross" per Paul.

They still did not understand what they did not know and were not told by God/Christ.

That was what God did to and through Paul.

Also note that Peter is NOT preaching to random gentiles. He is preaching to "men of Israel". (yes, I know, there were some proselytes there as well). So in Acts 3:20, 26, etc. the YOU is Israel.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Yes, like I said... no "preaching the cross" per Paul.

They still did not understand what they did not know and were not told by God/Christ.

That was what God did to and through Paul.

Also note that Peter is NOT preaching to random gentiles. He is preaching to "men of Israel". (yes, I know, there were some proselytes there as well). So in Acts 3:20, 26, etc. the YOU is Israel.
The cross wasn't the good news, even from Paul. He never talks of "the gospel of the cross".

I don't understand the significance of your last paragraph--I never suggested he was speaking to Gentiles, random or otherwise.
 

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The cross wasn't the good news, even from Paul. He never talks of "the gospel of the cross".
Of course it was... it's where the Lord was crucified (the word "crucified" comes from "cross").
1Cor 2:2 (KJV)
(2:2) For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

I don't understand the significance of your last paragraph--I never suggested he was speaking to Gentiles, random or otherwise.
OK
 

Bright Raven

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Let us reason.org


Are there two gospels?


Did Paul and Peter preach the same Gospel? Was there a different gospel to the gentiles than there was to the Jews? Some apparently thinks so.



This is often a reaction from those who disdain grace and want to conglomerate the law of the Old Covenant into the new covenant.



When Paul writes in Galatians any other gospel preached is accursed, then are Peter and John accursed? Is Paul.

There can be no doubt that on the day of Pentecost Peter did preach a "gospel of grace" And all those who believed that gospel were saved.

All those gathered at the Feast of Pentecost knew what Jesus was preaching before he ascended to heaven. lets go over the similarities of Paul and Peter.
Peter Acts 2:21 “And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' Paul says this very thing in Rom.10

Paul says this is the gospel he preached 1 Cor.15:1-4. This is what Peter explained on Pentecost, which is the same subject, Jesus’ Death and resurrection.
Acts 2:22-24 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know- "Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; "whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.

Acts 2:32-33 "This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. "Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.”

The Holy Spirit bore witness to the truth and made them witnesses of the truth.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

In other words you have walked away from Jesus, whom God gave as Messiah. Change your mind, turn toward him and be baptized to show that you are now committed and genuinely believe and you will be born again, by receiving the Spirit of God.

Acts 4:2 being greatly disturbed that they taught the people and preached in Jesus the resurrection from the dead.”



Acts 4:33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.”



If one studies what Peter says later we find him agreeing with Paul and he even says this of Paul
2 Peter 3:15-18 “and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation-- as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.”

What is the error of the wicked that Peter would be referring to? He tells us it will have one fall from their own steadfastness. His answer is to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord, not keep the law as the Judaizers/ legalists were insisting.



When people get into the points of minutia before they see the bigger picture they will ALWAYS miss the point.



God presented Jesus to his people of the covenant first. Acts 3:26 "To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities."




Rom 1:16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.”




There is only one gospel, not two and if one insists there are two, one of them is false. If they do not hold to the gospel that Paul preached, which is what Peter preached for both the Jews and non Jews (Gentiles) then they have accepted another gospel and will be judged for disseminating it to others.
 

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Let us reason.org

Are there two gospels?
Did Paul and Peter preach the same Gospel? Was there a different gospel to the gentiles than there was to the Jews? Some apparently thinks so.

This is often a reaction from those who disdain grace and want to conglomerate the law of the Old Covenant into the new covenant.

When Paul writes in Galatians any other gospel preached is accursed, then are Peter and John accursed? Is Paul.

There can be no doubt that on the day of Pentecost Peter did preach a "gospel of grace" And all those who believed that gospel were saved.

All those gathered at the Feast of Pentecost knew what Jesus was preaching before he ascended to heaven. lets go over the similarities of Paul and Peter.
Peter Acts 2:21 “And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' Paul says this very thing in Rom.10

Paul says this is the gospel he preached 1 Cor.15:1-4. This is what Peter explained on Pentecost, which is the same subject, Jesus’ Death and resurrection.
Acts 2:22-24 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know- "Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; "whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.

Acts 2:32-33 "This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. "Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.”

The Holy Spirit bore witness to the truth and made them witnesses of the truth.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

In other words you have walked away from Jesus, whom God gave as Messiah. Change your mind, turn toward him and be baptized to show that you are now committed and genuinely believe and you will be born again, by receiving the Spirit of God.

Acts 4:2 being greatly disturbed that they taught the people and preached in Jesus the resurrection from the dead.”

Acts 4:33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.”

If one studies what Peter says later we find him agreeing with Paul and he even says this of Paul
2 Peter 3:15-18 “and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation-- as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.”

What is the error of the wicked that Peter would be referring to? He tells us it will have one fall from their own steadfastness. His answer is to grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord, not keep the law as the Judaizers/ legalists were insisting.

When people get into the points of minutia before they see the bigger picture they will ALWAYS miss the point.

God presented Jesus to his people of the covenant first. Acts 3:26 "To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities."

Rom 1:16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.”

There is only one gospel, not two and if one insists there are two, one of them is false. If they do not hold to the gospel that Paul preached, which is what Peter preached for both the Jews and non Jews (Gentiles) then they have accepted another gospel and will be judged for disseminating it to others.
There are MANY gospels in the Bible. Gospel simply means "good news" and there is plenty of good news in the Bible.

The gospel OF THE KINGDOM is not identical to the gospel OF THE GRACE OF GOD (as just one example).
 

Bright Raven

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There are MANY gospels in the Bible. Gospel simply means "good news" and there is plenty of good news in the Bible.

The gospel OF THE KINGDOM is not identical to the gospel OF THE GRACE OF GOD (as just one example).
So you doubt there is only one Gospel of Jesus Christ.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Of course it was... it's where the Lord was crucified (the word "crucified" comes from "cross").

1Cor 2:2 (KJV)
(2:2) For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

But that wasn't the message to Corinth. That was Paul's attitude while there. Read the verse again. If that doesn't convince you, go read the context.

While you're there, check out vs 8, which explains why Jesus didn't have the disciples teaching his death before he died.
 

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But that wasn't the message to Corinth. That was Paul's attitude while there. Read the verse again. If that doesn't convince you, go read the context.
That's a bizarre idea.
While you're there, check out vs 8, which explains why Jesus didn't have the disciples teaching his death before he died.
Jesus did not teach about His death for the sins of the whole world even after His death... until Paul.
 

Derf

Well-known member
That's a bizarre idea.

Jesus did not teach about His death for the sins of the whole world even after His death... until Paul.
Sure he did. At Passover, where he treated his death as if it had already occurred. "This is my body".
Matthew 26:26 (KJV)
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed [it], and brake [it], and gave [it] to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mark 14:24 (KJV) And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
 

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Sure he did. At Passover, where he treated his death as if it had already occurred. "This is my body".
Matthew 26:26 (KJV)
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed [it], and brake [it], and gave [it] to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mark 14:24 (KJV) And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
NOTE: FOR MANY....
Why not ALL?
 

Bright Raven

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Please quote the scripture so that I know what you're talking about.

Galatians 2:7-8

Complete Jewish Bible

7 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the Good News for the Uncircumcised, just as Kefa had been for the Circumcised; 8 since the One working in Kefa to make him an emissary to the Circumcised had worked in me to make me an emissary to the Gentiles.


Believer's Bible Commentary.

Galatians 2:7-8

The Apostles in Jerusalem recognized that Paul had, by undeserved favor, been commissioned to take the Gospel to the uncircumcised just as Peter had been sent to the Jews. Both men preached the same Gospel, but primarily to different nationalities.
 

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Galatians 2:7-8​

Complete Jewish Bible​


7 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the Good News for the Uncircumcised, just as Kefa had been for the Circumcised; 8 since the One working in Kefa to make him an emissary to the Circumcised had worked in me to make me an emissary to the Gentiles.

Believer's Bible Commentary.

Galatians 2:7-8

The Apostles in Jerusalem recognized that Paul had, by undeserved favor, been commissioned to take the Gospel to the uncircumcised just as Peter had been sent to the Jews. Both men preached the same Gospel, but primarily to different nationalities.
That last paragraph is a lie. Why do you believe lies?

Firstly, Paul went there to explain HIS GOSPEL to them. If they were identical gospels, that makes NO sense whatsoever.

Second, this event was SEVENTEEN YEARS after Paul started preaching HIS gospel.

Thirdly, note the language that Paul uses: "perceived the grace that was given unto me". Was this same grace not given to them?
 
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