Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
After 181 pages has anyone actually changed their position? LOL. I doubt it
Jesus is God !
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Lonster
Member
He is rationalizing instead of being informed by scripture: "The Word 'became' flesh and 'made' His dwelling among us." John 1:14
In theology, do we want scripture, or some old guy's thoughts he cobbled together and think are gold?
Those who love God will ONLY be persuaded by God, not man's fanciful thoughts or delusions that he is right and scriptures (and the rest of us) are wrong. Jesus was BORN, that makes him a man, every man is a creature not God.
Even the EXPRESS IMAGE is a creature/creation for ALL IMAGES are creations.
Col 1:15 tells you the son is a creature, not God.
And then there is John 17:3..
I do not see most as idiots, just misguided, as I WAS. How you think of me matters not because I love you all anyway. But your not in the light and I feel maybe I can get some to question their faith which will drive them to learn more.
Human rationalizing. Do you think your every thought is gold? Do you elevate your 'high and mightier than all the rest around me' thoughts above God? You are "MAKING THIS UP!" Do you understand that? You think you are smarter than I am for some very strange odd reason. Why? Have you ever shown yourself apt? I've never seen it. Don't we get to choose our own professors and reject the ones found wanting? Okay, you can reject me. Fine. I DO have the credentials, but you are dismissing EVERY scholar, Keypurr! How arrogant do you have to be?
This is a construct YOU made up. YOU did. Why did you? What in all of creation demands that of you? Moreover, I'm the one who pointed this out to you AND the scripture says "EXACT" image. Do you get that? Do you 'understand' what "exact" means, Keypurr? If you want to teach, you are going to 1) NEED to learn the whole lesson of any particular lesson BEFORE running off and trying to teach it to others and 2) are going to have to pay attention when some other student raises his/her hand and says "er, I think your answer is wrong." How arrogant and willful were you in school, Keypurr? I did actually raise my hand and correct the teacher a few times, but I didn't do it as arrogantly as you do all over the place on TOL. I was humble and asked a question or said "I think I have the right answer..." You? :nono: I don't know if you ever read the verse that says "God opposes the proud but give grace to the humble" or that "the meek shall inherit the earth." You just aren't that guy.
No, you are drawing inference rather than simply reading the text. It does not say that. In your 'speculation' you are trampling all over John 1:14, Philippians 2:6-11. Why do you WANT a theology that tramples God in the first place, Keypurr? What can it possibly do for you, to have a 'god' in your own making rather than the God who is? I don't want God in my image. I want to be in His.
I worry that he CANNOT seem to grasp any scriptures like this, given as scriptures. He just 'reasons' and 'rationalizes' rather than simply adopting scripture truths and being taught to think from them. I can give a simple scripture, like John 1:1 that is so clear, yet 'rationalizations' of men will dismiss the clarity in favor of something they reasoned from their head, instead of took from scriptures in their clarity
Your theology is deductive. Do you know that that means? (It means it is an idea taken from, rather than being implicit, it is time to look at your own head and see how your brain works incorrectly in coming to assumptions you see incorrectly as truths, rather than implicit truths). Generally there is a reason for wanting to hold to truths that really aren't truths. What reason do you have, that you would not look to God, but instead your own rationalizations? What is the draw? Proverbs 3:5-7
Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[a]
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the Lord and shun evil.
"Idiots?" Where did that come from? And you see a good many as "idiots" by that admission? How 'intelligent' do you believe you are? Did well in school? Taught your teachers? Do you believe most read "Keypurr" on TOL and think "Brilliant!"?
I'm not sure I can ever approach your delusions to bust any of them up. It just never happens, but you are wrong. A lot. I don't really believe you do. I've never gotten that from you. In fact, just above, I've addressed your 'self-love' arrogance which seems to always be an issue in my discussions with you.
You've been here over ten years. Every happen? Is there perhaps a delusion? Do you, in fact, have a realistic view of yourself and your prowess?
Lonster
Member
I generally don't do that in these threads, because it always amounts to banter. I have "Our Triune God" as a thread specifically to avoid the banter and just post scripture (some of your posts on His Triune nature would be welcome over there). The reason is simply this: Scripture, thus God Himself, gives clear indication of what we are supposed to believe without man getting in the way with interpretation. What is rather done in that thread, is that men and women see God saying "I and the Father are One" and generally a statement or two about how it shows why we are Trinitarian in the first place is the pattern. As the first Councils wrestled with scripture, the desire was to be 'scriptural' without going beyond the text as so many do in their threads. It is very odd that this is the ONLY thread Unitarians/Arians are interested in, on TOL. they don't participate in holiness discussions, love of God discussions, Politics, or the rest. They have one thing on the brain. I cannot fathom that 20 years of this is sufficient for 'well done good and faithful servant.' They just aren't interested in many if any, other topics concerning theology. Until there was a clamp-down, for most of them it was the only threads they'd ever make, over and over and over again.
On the other hand, I do enjoy reading scripture thus not so much 'changed' as enhanced, further educated, and encouraged. So yes to that, I have been encouraged by posts in this thread
keypurr
Well-known member
Trump girl your only interested in your silly church which I see as evil.
keypurr
Well-known member
Jesus did not preexist, but the spirit he was anointed did. Your half truths do not hold water. Your not to smart to discard what could be truth RD.
keypurr
Well-known member
Lon your good at spelling and English but not in theology. Your stuck in a rut friend. I have been trying to pull you out.
keypurr
Well-known member
I am sorry if the truth I have offends anyone but if it gets folks to think I have to express it.
Last time you blocked me it was after I posted twenty verses of scripture. That should tell you something.
keypurr
Well-known member
If your so smart tell me about the Miltha and where did he come from? Show me that there is a three piece God in scripture. You choose to follow the rules of the RCC instead of the most high.
keypurr
Well-known member
Lon I feel quite comfortable with myself. I feel blessed with an understanding of my creator and his son. I believe in the scriptures and my ability to see what they really say. You need the guidance of tradition. Some day, hopefully you will see truth.He is rationalizing instead of being informed by scripture: "The Word 'became' flesh and 'made' His dwelling among us." John 1:14
In theology, do we want scripture, or some old guy's thoughts he cobbled together and think are gold?
Jesus was BORN, that makes him a man, every man is a creature not God.
Even the EXPRESS IMAGE is a creature/creation for ALL IMAGES are creations.
Col 1:15 tells you the son is a creature, not God.
And then there is John 17:3..
I do not see most as idiots, just misguided, as I WAS. How you think of me matters not because I love you all anyway. But your not in the light and I feel maybe I can get some to question their faith which will drive them to learn more.
Human rationalizing. Do you think your every thought is gold? Do you elevate your 'high and mightier than all the rest around me' thoughts above God? You are "MAKING THIS UP!" Do you understand that? You think you are smarter than I am for some very strange odd reason. Why? Have you ever shown yourself apt? I've never seen it. Don't we get to choose our own professors and reject the ones found wanting? Okay, you can reject me. Fine. I DO have the credentials, but you are dismissing EVERY scholar, Keypurr! How arrogant do you have to be?
This is a construct YOU made up. YOU did. Why did you? What in all of creation demands that of you? Moreover, I'm the one who pointed this out to you AND the scripture says "EXACT" image. Do you get that? Do you 'understand' what "exact" means, Keypurr? If you want to teach, you are going to 1) NEED to learn the whole lesson of any particular lesson BEFORE running off and trying to teach it to others and 2) are going to have to pay attention when some other student raises his/her hand and says "er, I think your answer is wrong." How arrogant and willful were you in school, Keypurr? I did actually raise my hand and correct the teacher a few times, but I didn't do it as arrogantly as you do all over the place on TOL. I was humble and asked a question or said "I think I have the right answer..." You? :nono: I don't know if you ever read the verse that says "God opposes the proud but give grace to the humble" or that "the meek shall inherit the earth." You just aren't that guy.
No, you are drawing inference rather than simply reading the text. It does not say that. In your 'speculation' you are trampling all over John 1:14, Philippians 2:6-11. Why do you WANT a theology that tramples God in the first place, Keypurr? What can it possibly do for you, to have a 'god' in your own making rather than the God who is? I don't want God in my image. I want to be in His.
I worry that he CANNOT seem to grasp any scriptures like this, given as scriptures. He just 'reasons' and 'rationalizes' rather than simply adopting scripture truths and being taught to think from them. I can give a simple scripture, like John 1:1 that is so clear, yet 'rationalizations' of men will dismiss the clarity in favor of something they reasoned from their head, instead of took from scriptures in their clarity
Your theology is deductive. Do you know that that means? (It means it is an idea taken from, rather than being implicit, it is time to look at your own head and see how your brain works incorrectly in coming to assumptions you see incorrectly as truths, rather than implicit truths). Generally there is a reason for wanting to hold to truths that really aren't truths. What reason do you have, that you would not look to God, but instead your own rationalizations? What is the draw? Proverbs 3:5-7
Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[a]
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the Lord and shun evil.
"Idiots?" Where did that come from? And you see a good many as "idiots" by that admission? How 'intelligent' do you believe you are? Did well in school? Taught your teachers? Do you believe most read "Keypurr" on TOL and think "Brilliant!"?
I don't really believe you do. I've never gotten that from you. In fact, just above, I've addressed your 'self-love' arrogance which seems to always be an issue in my discussions with you.
You've been here over ten years. Every happen? Is there perhaps a delusion? Do you, in fact, have a realistic view of yourself and your prowess?
Greetings again Lonster,
2 Samuel 7:14 (KJV): I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
Kind regards
Trevor
2 Samuel 7:14 (KJV): I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
It was not present position as the Trinitarian needs to claim. I read this passage and context as saying that David was in the future to have a son or descendant who would sit upon the Throne of David. As well as being a descendant of David, the child born would also be The Son of God, that is, the One and Only God, Yahweh, God the Father and the child when grown and developed would be like God his father in character. The historical record of the anticipated conception and birth, whereby God the Father became the father and a descendant of David, Mary, became the mother of this child is revealed in Matthew 1:20-21 and Luke 1:34-35.
Despite your claim that it reads simply, Trinitarians have conflicting assessments as to what John 1:14 is actually saying. Most seem to suggest that The Second Person of the Trinity, God the Son entered into a state of two natures, one human and the other Divine. John 1:14 states that The Word became flesh, not God and flesh, or that flesh was added onto God the Son, or the Word. I would like to hear what you believe on this. Was Jesus human (flesh) or was he God, or both when he was born? Do you have a reason why "the Second person of the Trinity" or "God the Son" is called "The Word" in John 1:1?
Is Melchizedek still alive? It says that he was made like the Son of God. Jesus was (to be) a priest after the order of Melchizedek. No mention to say that Jesus is Melchizedek.
I read Yahweh as the future tense, not the future and the present. My Hebrew scholars, Trinitarian and non-Trinitarian, tell me that the present tense is different and is found in the same context in Exodus 3:6 “I am the God of Abraham”. I will hold to “I will be” as backed up by Exodus 3:12 and Exodus 6:1-8 as explained in my “The Yahweh Name” thread and supported by Tyndale and the RV and RSV margins and other scholars, Trinitarian and non-Trinitarian. I suggest that you are the one making up a story here.
Kind regards
Trevor
Lonster
Member
Nope. You don't know anything else about God and this is your one-trick pony that completely misses the ball. You don't know languages, certainly don't know creed histories or the assembly involved in making them and are ignorant of what Trinitarians actually believe as well. I have a Master's degree and years beyond your couple of years going over Watchtower material in your house. This is all about you and your pride again. There is no 'love the God of Jesus Christ' let alone 'Love the God of "My" Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It all falls very flat and very far from Him. You will stand before Him for this. You just don't have room for this kind of arrogance and pride. Humble yourself a LOT more than you currently are. Nobody on TOL thinks of you as any kind of scholar nor do they value your 'pulling them out' but rather see it as avoiding a poor theology of a hole.
Lonster
Member
"You're..." Miltha is the Aramaic word for "word." Do I have to be smart or simply well-read? You aren't doing anything special, and certainly aren't teaching anybody anything. If you were a good teacher, I'd have converted 10 years ago if it were true. Plain and simply, it is ALL derivative rationalizations from your head. It makes all your ideas, human, not from God. I don't WANT to follow Keypurr, especially when I'm better at Hebrew, Greek, English, and would be better if I wanted Aramaic in my arsenal as well. Why? Because I'm a good student, not arrogant. I only 'seem' arrogant to those without the wherewithall (people like you who feign and pretend and don't have an ounce of any of this).
He wasn't created. You Unitarians make this all up in your odd little heads. You get so far removed from plain scripture with your 'peshitta' and ' 'Miltha' Aramaic that YOU cannot even read, that you cloud perfectly clear scriptures with fancy dances you cannot even do. It is like watching a guy who danced at a barn dance once, trying to teach someone who can walz how to dance. . I 'can' read Hebrew and Greek. You can't. Nor Aramaic. Such is blow-hard posturing. You simply do NOT have the credentials, Keypurr. You have NO room for the arrogance you shoulder. You are NOT above most, in fact. Quite the opposite and delusional about it.
Of course there is. I have a thread about 300 pages on this. Did you ever bother to read scripture presentations there? I think not. You don't care and it shows. ALL you care about is your ideas. That isn't theology, Keypurr, it is bias and unwillingness to learn a thing. I simply and only want you to worship God the way HE prescribes. Unitarians and Arians don't and reject the Lord Jesus Christ. You can't even say "I love the God of 'my' Lord and Savior whom I also love." Nope, you separate them out and love God while diminishing the Lord Jesus Christ EVERY TIME you argue in these threads. Your statement leaves love of the Savior out. Did you know that you do that? Did you know it is a huge offense to every Triune believer and every modalist? Did you further know it is even an affront to some Arians/Unitarians? Do you care?
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Lonster
Member
I know you do. You shouldn't because you actually don't have the where-with-all, but yeah, I knew that about you. Old people who can no longer change often do. It isn't by any necessity a 'good' thing that you feel comfortable.
I feel more so because I've studied, longer, harder, with incredibly prepared professors, and have you beat, 99.9 to 0.01 with checking my theology. You don't. Moreover, it isn't just about the numbers, but absolutely the numbers don't lie --> One thousand men in a room studying and trying to love God all come up with an conclusion and check each other for their work. One in that room of a thousand, first didn't graduate high school, second has no grasp of languages then 3) disagrees with the thousand YET he 'feels quite comfortable with himself' and 'feels blessed' with his very limited grasp that has none of the hard work and effort put in compared to most of the 1000.
I don't. In fact it is highly unlikely given your understanding of English (limited). It simply means the 'best' you can do is delude yourself.
You do too. Guidance is the parameter for knowing God. When Jesus was discussing this with His disciples, He said to listen to the Pharisees because they were right, but not to do what they did, because they didn't practice what they preached. When He confronted the Samaritan, He said "Salvation belongs to the Jews." So, you arrogantly went against all of Christendom much like those Samaritans, in arrogance, went against Jerusalem. "IF" you knew scriptures like you should, You'd have been VERY careful not to side with the Samaritans, but you are not that educated and don't pay that much attention to scripture's lessons. Then? Have the audacity to say you are better at theology than I am. Er, print is here for all to see whether you grasp that you've been bested, or not. Self-delusion is purposeful.
Er, we will both stand before the Lord Jesus Christ and be judged for not only orthodoxy (right grasp) of scripture, but who we led astray. Let me say that again: "WE" will stand before Him. At the VERY least, I'm studied AND have 1000 that I've hammered out my theology with in hard study. Let's discuss any of it instead of you always posturing. John 1:1 is VERY clear that the Word was 'with God' AND 'was God.'
John 20:28 is VERY clear that Thomas called the Lord Jesus Christ his "Lord" and his "God." Scripture says it. Everything 'you' say is 'you' saying it and never comes from scripture. You've NEVER (and never will) show that "image is not God." Not when THE SCRIPTURE FROM GOD says 'exact.' Scripture says it. Not me. Every contradiction YOU give is just YOU saying it, Keypurr. Nobody gets to stand before the Lord Jesus Christ at Judgement day and say "I wrote that part myself." Nobody.
Lonster
Member
Yet He had glory 'with His Father' before the earth was formed (Colossians 1:15-20 'by Him' incidentally). Does your narrative account for all of scripture revelation? If not, it isn't going to be accurate, just a postulated idea that scripture can show wrong.
What do you mean? Link please.
Most of whom? The ones who 'conflict?' They don't, if you follow this.
Scripture states "was with and was God." The two ideas MUST be reconciled Biblically in such a way that no violence to any revelation occurs and with due reverence to God. The scripture says then, "the Word became flesh." When did that happen? When Jesus entered the world. There is no time before or since that God, who was both 'the word' and 'was with the Word' at the same time, 'became flesh' other than the incarnation. Further, it is grammatically irresponsible to not see the Gospel of John, in entirety, about the Lord Jesus Christ. It means, necessarily, that the first words from the page are about Him. John also calls Jesus the Word of God in both the epistles and in Revelation. Again, it is academically and spiritually irresponsible to make up anything you 'prefer' if it does both academic and spiritual damage (and it does). It is crystal clear that the "Word" is the Lord, my Lord, Jesus Christ.
'One like him' in comparison. The analogy given is that in very specific manners, the two are alike AND those characters are "priesthood forever" "no beginning or end" and Hebrew 7:16 specifically says compared 'in the power of an indestructible life."
Trevor, you need to 1) reread what I wrote and 2) not be so defensive you make false accusation simply, and only, to barricade Unitarian thought. You literally 'made up a story' about me making up a story. ASK any of your professors to read what I wrote. What Bible seminary are you attending? Which of 'your Hebrew' teachers are you talking about? I need to call your school and talk with your professors directly.
No, that wasn't kind at all, Trevor. If you are going to say it, you should actually mean it. You were being presumptuous and arrogant just now. That isn't kind at all and with very little regard and you know it.
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Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
No Christian would say something that colossally ignorant. What is wrong with you.
Ladies and Gentleman, do you see that response? Here is what I posted. Consider this post, and consider that disgusting response:
I have said a billion times, Jesus is fully man, and he is also fully God. . . . // . . . .The union of Christ's humanity and divinity in one hypostasis, or one individual existence, is called the Hypostatic union (from the Greek: ὑπόστασις hypóstasis, "sediment, foundation, substance, subsistence").
Jesus Christ is both God and man. He is both perfectly divine and perfectly human.
Jesus Christ is . . . the Only Begotten Son of God . . . God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made.
I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
So does Lucifer.
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen Brother, all His Elect Saints shall Bless the Name of the Jehovah Man Christ Forever !
Trump Gurl
Credo in Unum Deum
There is a specific kind of spiritual food I seek - I do not desire food that is covered in dung - Denial of the Deity of Christ. You try to feed me dung. That is why I blocked you - you misuse Scripture to your own destruction.
You may consider me savage - I take my scripture in big chunks - uncut and uncooked. I took Numbers in one big piece the other day.