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  • The new birth is new life, abundant life, eternal life received now and carrying on into the future. Those who receive Christ become children of God (Jn. 1:12) and have eternal life now (I Jn. 5:11-13). They are indwelt by the Spirit and transformed into the image of Christ. The future bodily resurrection (glorified body) is the culmination of the process of salvation: justification/regeneration/new birth, sanctification (holiness), and glorification (resurrection). It deals with the penalty of sin (j), the power of sin (s), and the presence of sin (g).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by godrulz
      The new birth is new life, abundant life, eternal life received now and carrying on into the future. Those who receive Christ become children of God (Jn. 1:12)
      Just a small point of contention here. It is my interpretation of scripture that all human beings are children of God (assuming that we're looking to scripture as an authority source).

      Ac 17:28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.'
      Ac 17:29 "Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.

      And although there are references to children of the devil in scripture, we may nonetheless surmise that such is merely allegory, insofar as the devil has never actually impregnated any human being (at least as far as I'm aware).

      Joh 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

      and have eternal life now (I Jn. 5:11-13). They are indwelt by the Spirit and transformed into the image of Christ. The future bodily resurrection (glorified body) is the culmination of the process of salvation: justification/regeneration/new birth, sanctification (holiness), and glorification (resurrection). It deals with the penalty of sin (j), the power of sin (s), and the presence of sin (g).

      Comment


      • Originally posted by godrulz
        The new birth is new life, abundant life, eternal life received now and carrying on into the future. Those who receive Christ become children of God (Jn. 1:12) and have eternal life now (I Jn. 5:11-13). They are indwelt by the Spirit and transformed into the image of Christ. The future bodily resurrection (glorified body) is the culmination of the process of salvation: justification/regeneration/new birth, sanctification (holiness), and glorification (resurrection). It deals with the penalty of sin (j), the power of sin (s), and the presence of sin (g).

        Dang, I like yer style.

        Good stuff !!!
        ------

        "Maybe we should spray some OBAMA on it, He's got electrolytes!"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by oftenbuzzard
          Dang, I like yer style.

          Good stuff !!!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sozo

            Cmon...I think the post is generally succinct and agreed on by most believers (or are you referring to your perceptions of what you think I believe about the specific concepts?).

            The newbie does not have to agree with everything I have ever said or will ever say. I am sure he will have discernment as needed.
            Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

            They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
            I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

            Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

            "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

            The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ~Agnostic~
              Just a small point of contention here. It is my interpretation of scripture that all human beings are children of God (assuming that we're looking to scripture as an authority source).

              Ac 17:28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.'
              Ac 17:29 "Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.

              And although there are references to children of the devil in scripture, we may nonetheless surmise that such is merely allegory, insofar as the devil has never actually impregnated any human being (at least as far as I'm aware).

              Joh 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

              There are two senses. We are all 'children' of God and share a brotherhood of man in that God is the Creator and Sustainer of man (both good and evil men).

              Paul was quoting their pagan poets to make a point and find common ground to argue from an unknown god to the uncreated triune Creator (Living God revealed in the God-Man, Christ). He was not making a doctrinal statement in their quote that would be contrary to Christ's explicit teaching (Jn. 3...believer vs unbeliever; light vs darkness; truth vs lie; spirit vs flesh= dualisms).

              Jn. 1:12 and Romans refer to spiritual vs natural children of God who are adopted into His Forever Family through faith in Christ. He becomes Abba, Father, in an intimate, redemptive (vs creation) relationship. Those who do not enter the narrow gate are still creations of the Creator, but they are not the sons of God leading to eternal life. They are at enmity with God and objects of wrath, children (by default) of the devil (Eph. 2; Rom. 1-3).

              We are sons of Adam (children of Creator God), but we must be born again to become sons of the New Adam (Christ), new creatures in Christ, adopted as sons of God once again.
              Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

              They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
              I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

              Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

              "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

              The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by godrulz
                Cmon...I think the post is generally succinct and agreed on by most believers (or are you referring to your perceptions of what you think I believe about the specific concepts?).

                The newbie does not have to agree with everything I have ever said or will ever say. I am sure he will have discernment as needed.
                You are right my friend. My endorsement was for the post content only.

                However, I find that folks that have this right are not as numerous as one might think. Lots of good theology in that post.

                Consider my wave as a TruthSmooch!

                ~buzz
                ------

                "Maybe we should spray some OBAMA on it, He's got electrolytes!"

                Comment


                • It doesn't matter. None of it matters because we are called to serve Christ and save others from hell. It is how we do that that matters. If your friend is having an abortion (sorry to skip so far back) and you tell her that it is wrong, it becomes her decision. All you can do is love. Grace is the key, and the rest of it is dust, chaff in the wind. Christ wants everyone in his kingdom and that is the big picture. And finger pointing and judgement - correct or incorrect - come only from God who is perfect and holy and just, not from us. We are to love. I don't want to be defeatest, but we can't lose sight of that goal because of pointless debates on some online forum. We would be contradicting ourselves. I don't want to insult or provoke anyone, but alert this board that it could be going in a very wrong direction. Thats all. Its your decision what happens next.

                  Comment


                  • "It is not my perspective that verbal confession or heart belief save a person's soul. I would interpret this verse as merely validating that verbal confession and heart belief are mere byproducts of a person who is already saved. But the two elements have no saving power in and of themselves.

                    . . . .

                    "Likewise, anyone can confess to be a Christian, and believe in their heart that they are a Christian, but this doesn't necessarily make them a Christian. They may be or they may not be. These elements have no saving power, but are merely expressions of an already existent Christian. But sometimes non-Christians do these things as well."

                    In other words, Christians are like God in that they (may) exist but there is no way to detect them.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by godrulz
                      There are two senses. We are all 'children' of God and share a brotherhood of man in that God is the Creator and Sustainer of man (both good and evil men).
                      What are 'children' of God as opposed to children of God?

                      Paul was quoting their pagan poets to make a point
                      And that point included that all people are children of God as opposed to mere 'children' of God.

                      and find common ground to argue from an unknown god to the uncreated triune Creator (Living God revealed in the God-Man, Christ).
                      Not only does Paul find this common ground (which you seem to imply that he didn't even believe), but he also reinforces the teachings of secular philosophers as a doctrinal foundation point. Observe the second portion of the scripture unit which I had highlighted for you.

                      Ac 17:28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.'
                      Ac 17:29 "Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.

                      You seem to imply here that Paul doesn't actually believe what he's saying, when making a reference to children of God (as opposed to 'children' of God). You're just altering the scripture in an attempt to nullify what it actually says, in order to support your own doctrinal presuppositions at this point, as far as I'm concerned. You're willfully invalidating the text by substituting children with 'children'.

                      He was not making a doctrinal statement in their quote
                      Sure he was. Where did you get the idea that he wasn't? Is it because he had used an extra-biblical source text? Was he just pretending to agree with some secular 'heresy' to win people to Christ after some form of relational evangelism? Winning over the lost by openly embracing their lies, and then secretly interjecting the truth? Is this good gospel?

                      that would be contrary to Christ's explicit teaching (Jn. 3...believer vs unbeliever; light vs darkness; truth vs lie; spirit vs flesh= dualisms).
                      I suggest that Christ used dualistic teachings only to communicate with dualistic minds. And you may be a bit stuck there. This is perhaps similar to the way that Christ enlisted parables.

                      Jn. 1:12 and Romans refer to spiritual vs natural children of God who are adopted into His Forever Family through faith in Christ. He becomes Abba, Father, in an intimate, redemptive (vs creation) relationship. Those who do not enter the narrow gate are still creations of the Creator, but they are not the sons of God leading to eternal life. They are at enmity with God and objects of wrath, children (by default) of the devil (Eph. 2; Rom. 1-3).
                      I suggest that the goal of dualistic teachings within the scripture is not to lead a non-dualistic mind into dualism, but rather to establish rapport with a dualistic mind and lead it out of dualism.

                      We are sons of Adam (children of Creator God), but we must be born again to become sons of the New Adam (Christ), new creatures in Christ, adopted as sons of God once again.
                      And here comes the release from dualism.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by billwald
                        "It is not my perspective that verbal confession or heart belief save a person's soul. I would interpret this verse as merely validating that verbal confession and heart belief are mere byproducts of a person who is already saved. But the two elements have no saving power in and of themselves.

                        . . . .

                        "Likewise, anyone can confess to be a Christian, and believe in their heart that they are a Christian, but this doesn't necessarily make them a Christian. They may be or they may not be. These elements have no saving power, but are merely expressions of an already existent Christian. But sometimes non-Christians do these things as well."

                        In other words, Christians are like God in that they (may) exist but there is no way to detect them.
                        Mt 7:20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.

                        Of course, fruits (actions, words) dont's actually save a person. These are merely works which have no power to save a soul. If someone proclaims that these two elements save a soul, they are therefore teachings a works-based salvation.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Knight
                          TITLE OF THE WEBSITE: ChristianForums.com
                          SUBTITLE OF THEIR WEBSITE: Christian Forums is a multi-denominational Christian forum message board community uniting all Christians as one body.

                          Yet the truth divides!

                          Christ said...

                          Luke 12:51 Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division.

                          Matthew 10:34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword."

                          John 7:43 So there was a division among the people because of Him.

                          So ChristianForums.com banned Christ.

                          ChristianForums.com RULES state...

                          Christ exclaimed...

                          Matthew 23:33 “Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?

                          So ChristianForums.com swiftly banned Christ.

                          ChristianForums.com rules state:

                          Christ warned...

                          John 8:44 “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

                          And Christ turned to Peter and said...

                          Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.

                          So ChristianForums.com quickly banned Christ.

                          ChristianForums.coms rules state:

                          Christ made Himself clear...

                          Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

                          And when the rich man asked Christ....

                          Luke 18:18 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 20 “You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ” 21 And he said, “All these things I have kept from my youth.” 22 So when Jesus heard these things, He said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 23 But when he heard this, he became very sorrowful, for he was very rich. 24 And when Jesus saw that he became very sorrowful, He said, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God! 25 “For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

                          So ChristianForums.com deleted Christ's words and quickly banned Christ.
                          There are so many things wrong with this post I do not know exactly where to begin. First of all it is clear by having a Christian only section that they do they do tell others that they are not Christian. That is clear. Also it is clear that Kight has either never posted over there or ignores how the rules are enforced over there. Because there is much honest and open discussion and many times some members call other members unorthodox etc. So Knight's post against CF just does not reflect ther real truth at CF but instead is just another post that tries to divide instead of unite. So instead of readiing this drivel pleae go over to CF and really look at how things are done. I do not think Knight and many others here will do that since they are only posting to stir up arguments and controversies. Well all I can say is have fun and I guess this is why I do not come on this board to often if this is the kind of silly posts are common here.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by blackhawk
                            There are so many things wrong with this post I do not know exactly where to begin. First of all it is clear by having a Christian only section that they do they do tell others that they are not Christian. That is clear.
                            Fantastic! Now you can join me in asking them to remove that from their rules.

                            Also it is clear that Kight has either never posted over there or ignores how the rules are enforced over there.
                            Guilty as charged.

                            Because there is much honest and open discussion and many times some members call other members unorthodox etc. So Knight's post against CF just does not reflect ther real truth at CF but instead is just another post that tries to divide instead of unite.
                            Again, I will not doubt your assertion.

                            But it is clear that their rules state otherwise. Therefore they should take my advice and alter their rules, do you disagree? And if so, why?
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                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Knight
                              Fantastic! Now you can join me in asking them to remove that from their rules.

                              Guilty as charged.

                              Again, I will not doubt your assertion.

                              But it is clear that their rules state otherwise. Therefore they should take my advice and alter their rules, do you disagree? And if so, why?
                              No because the rules are meant for civil discussion on the web. Remember this is the web and neither CF nor here is a local church. Their rules for the most part are fine. It is your interpretation that is incorrect. But you have just stated that you did not even take the time to see how the rules were applied at CF. I do nto see how you can be taken seriously now since obviously your post was just trying to stir up quarrells amongst believers. By not doing any HW and just posting an interpretation of a rule you show that you did not intend to engourage CF to change their rules or even make an attempt to understand then. This is much like many who when they first hear the EAstern Orthodox doctrine of deification do not take the time to understand what is meant by the term and instead reject it outright. So I implore all to before they listen to you or others to see for themselves and do their HW and then decide what CF is doing and then go to them Biblically as MATT 18 commands us to do.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by blackhawk
                                There are so many things wrong with this post I do not know exactly where to begin. First of all it is clear by having a Christian only section that they do they do tell others that they are not Christian.
                                Are you calling them hypocrites? They break their own rules?

                                Because there is much honest and open discussion and many times some members call other members unorthodox etc.
                                How does anyone stand up in the face of such a scathing rebuke? If you are allowed to call someone 'unorthodox' well then forget the whole thing.
                                "I believe in Christianity, as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." C.S. Lewis

                                "Don't believe that there's nothing that's true, don't believe in this modern machine." Switchfoot

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