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  • Theology Club: Even So, Come Lord Jesus

    The Apostle John was expecting an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus so he was expecting to be raptured just like all of the other members of the Body of Christ:

    "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last....And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus"
    (Rev.22:12-13,19-20).

    In the following passage John describes what will happen when the saints are caught up to be with the Lord Jesus:

    "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).

    Those who received John's epistles were taught that since the Lord Jesus' appearance at the rapture is imminent that they would be alive when the Lord Jesus appears--"when he shall appear...we shall see him as he is."

    They were also taught that "when he shall appear... we shall be like him."

    The events of which are spoken of at 1 John 3:2 John can only be in regard to the rapture. And according to Paul Sadler, the past President of the Berean Bible Society, only the members of the Body of Christ will be raptured:
    "The 'secret' resurrection that will take place at the Rapture should never be confused with the 'first' resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ. Those who rightly divide the Word of truth now see that only the members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the Rapture" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1993], 167).

  • #2
    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
      The Apostle John was expecting an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus so he was expecting to be raptured just like all of the other members of the Body of Christ:

      "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last....And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus"
      (Rev.22:12-13,19-20).

      In the following passage John describes what will happen when the saints are caught up to be with the Lord Jesus:

      "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).

      Those who received John's epistles were taught that since the Lord Jesus' appearance at the rapture is imminent that they would be alive when the Lord Jesus appears--"when he shall appear...we shall see him as he is."

      They were also taught that "when he shall appear... we shall be like him."

      The events of which are spoken of at 1 John 3:2 John can only be in regard to the rapture. And according to Paul Sadler, the past President of the Berean Bible Society, only the members of the Body of Christ will be raptured:
      "The 'secret' resurrection that will take place at the Rapture should never be confused with the 'first' resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ. Those who rightly divide the Word of truth now see that only the members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the Rapture" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1993], 167).
      Does the rapture work with what Jesus says here?
      Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
        The Apostle John was expecting an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus so he was expecting to be raptured just like all of the other members of the Body of Christ:

        "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last....And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus"
        (Rev.22:12-13,19-20).

        In the following passage John describes what will happen when the saints are caught up to be with the Lord Jesus:

        "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).

        Those who received John's epistles were taught that since the Lord Jesus' appearance at the rapture is imminent that they would be alive when the Lord Jesus appears--"when he shall appear...we shall see him as he is."

        They were also taught that "when he shall appear... we shall be like him."

        The events of which are spoken of at 1 John 3:2 John can only be in regard to the rapture. And according to Paul Sadler, the past President of the Berean Bible Society, only the members of the Body of Christ will be raptured:
        "The 'secret' resurrection that will take place at the Rapture should never be confused with the 'first' resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ. Those who rightly divide the Word of truth now see that only the members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the Rapture" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1993], 167).
        Using that logic, and understanding what was taught about Israel (believing Israel, mind you) in regards to the entire Tribulation, they would go through the Trib, then be raptured to meet Christ in the air, and then be brought right back down to Earth so that Christ could set up his millennial kingdom. It all makes...

        Wait a minute...



        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
          Does the rapture work with what Jesus says here?
          Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
          Yes, because once those in the Body of Christ are raptured they will from that point of time on always be with the Lord Jesus (1 Thess.4:17).

          So when the Lord returns to the earth to set up His kingdom those in the Body will be with Him. And they too will be judges (1 Cor.6:2).

          Do you think that what John says at 1 John 3:2 will happen when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth to usher in His kingdom? That living believers will be made like Him when they see Him at His appearance?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
            Using that logic, and understanding what was taught about Israel (believing Israel, mind you) in regards to the entire Tribulation, they would go through the Trib, then be raptured to meet Christ in the air, and then be brought right back down to Earth so that Christ could set up his millennial kingdom.
            By the time when the epistle to the Romans was written Israel had been temporarily set aside and the believing remnant were made members of the body of Christ, and in the following passage Paul speaks of two groups, the believing remnant and the believing Gentiles:
            "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby" (Eph.2:13-16).

            Do you think that living saints will be made like the Lord Jesus when they see Him appear when He returns to the earth to set up His kingdom:
            "
            Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is"
            (1 Jn.3:2).

            Those who received John's epistles were taught that since the Lord Jesus' appearance at the rapture is imminent that they would be alive when the Lord Jesus appears--"when he shall appear...we shall see him as he is."

            They were also taught that "when he shall appear... we shall be like him."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
              Do you think that what John says at 1 John 3:2 will happen when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth to usher in His kingdom? That living believers will be made like Him when they see Him at His appearance?
              I have no idea, Jerry.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
                I have no idea, Jerry.
                The teaching that living believers will put on bodies like that of the Lord Jesus at His appearance was a "mystery" truth and applies only to those in the Body:

                "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed"
                (1 Cor.15:51-52).

                Besides that, John was expected an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus (Rev.20:12-20) and only those in the Body are taught to expect such an appearance. If John was a saint that is called a "tribulation" saint then the Lord's appearance in that case cannot be described as being imminent because before he can see the appearance of the Lord Jesus the abomination of desolation must first stand in the holy place (Mt.24:15-30).

                The teaching that the rapture is "imminent" is supported by the following passage:
                "For our citizenship is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body...The Lord is at hand (eggus)" (Phil.3:20-21;4:5).

                The Greek word eggus means "of times imminent and soon to come to pass" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

                The following verse from the Hebrew epistles also describes the Lord Jesus' imminent coming:

                "You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near" (James 5:8).

                The Greek word translated "is near" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

                In an article found on the "Pre-Trib Research Center" web site Dr. Renald E. Showers writes:

                "In light of James' statements C. Leslie Mitton wrote, 'James clearly believed, as others of his time did, that the coming of Christ was imminent.' On the basis of James' statements we can conclude that Christ's coming was imminent in New Testament times and continues to be so today, and that this fact should make a difference in the way Christians live"
                [emphasis added] (Showers, The Imminent Coming of Christ).

                With the words at James 5:8 in view can we not understand that those who received that epistle were waiting for the rapture? And was Sadler right when he said the following?:

                "The 'secret' resurrection that will take place at the Rapture should never be confused with the 'first' resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ. Those who rightly divide the Word of truth now see that only the members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the Rapture" [emphasis mine] (Paul Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1993], 167).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                  The Apostle John was expecting an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus so he was expecting to be raptured just like all of the other members of the Body of Christ:

                  "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last....And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus"
                  (Rev.22:12-13,19-20).

                  In the following passage John describes what will happen when the saints are caught up to be with the Lord Jesus:

                  "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).

                  Those who received John's epistles were taught that since the Lord Jesus' appearance at the rapture is imminent that they would be alive when the Lord Jesus appears--"when he shall appear...we shall see him as he is."

                  They were also taught that "when he shall appear... we shall be like him."

                  The events of which are spoken of at 1 John 3:2 John can only be in regard to the rapture. And according to Paul Sadler, the past President of the Berean Bible Society, only the members of the Body of Christ will be raptured:
                  "The 'secret' resurrection that will take place at the Rapture should never be confused with the 'first' resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ. Those who rightly divide the Word of truth now see that only the members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the Rapture" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1993], 167).
                  Happy New Year, Jerry, hope you are well!
                  The following is from pages 33-34 of Paul Sadler's commentary on Revelation (01/12/18), Vol. 1:

                  Although time travel is impossible for man, nothing is impossible with God. He is eternal, all-knowing, all-pow-erful, and ever-present. Just as Enoch, Elijah, and Phillip were transported to another place in a moment of time, the Apostle John was carried away in the Spirit to the future
                  Day of the Lord (Heb. 11:5; II Kings 2:11,12; Acts 8:39,40 cf. Rev. 1:9,10). (And you thought your vacation last summer was the trip of a lifetime!)

                  Does all this sound farfetched? Not to the believer who views it through the eye of faith! What saith the Scriptures?

                  “I John, who also am your brother, and companion in [the] Tribulation, and in the Kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the Word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet” (Rev. 1:9,10).

                  This is John, the beloved, who laid his head on the breast of Jesus at the Last Supper. He was one of the twelve apostles of the Kingdom, and as far as we know, he was the last surviving member of the group when he penned these words. According to John, he had been banished to the isle of Patmos by the Roman Emperor Domitian.
                  The banishment was meant to be a death sentence for the aged apostle, but God turned the ill intent into an unforgettable revelation of His dear Son.

                  As a Hebrew addressing Hebrews, John identifies himself with his kinsmen after the flesh. He is their brother and companion in troublous times. If we consult the original language here, we learn that the definite article precedes the noun, Tribulation.

                  Consequently, John is their companion during “the” seven-year Tribulation and the Millennium that follows. These are the things “which must shortly come to pass,” spoken of in verse 1, and so naturally, John is writing to those who will be living at that day. This is confirmed for us by the apostle’s next statement: “I was in the Spirit
                  on the Lord’s Day.”
                  And from 57 of Sadler's commentary:

                  One area where confusion reigns with most commentators who write on Revelation has to do with John’s usage of the word church. They conclude that, since the Apostle John frequently uses this term, he was writing to members of the Body of Christ. However, the Greek word ekklesia (church) is a very general expression that more literally means “called-out ones.” The context will always determine which “called-out” group is in view. Israel, for example, in time past, was called the church in the wilderness (Acts 7:38).

                  During the earthly ministry of Christ, our Lord stated that He would build His “church” on Peter’s confession that He was the Christ (Messiah), the very Son of God (Matt. 16:16-18). We know that Christ came unto His own, that is, Israel, and His own received Him not (John 1:11). Consequently, He took the promise of the Kingdom and gave it
                  to the believing remnant within the nation called the “little flock.” “Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom” (Luke 12:32). These were the charter members of the Kingdom Church. On the day of Pentecost, three thousand souls were added to this church (Acts 2:41,47).

                  After the Rapture, God is going to pick up where He left off, shortly after Pentecost, when He temporarily set Israel aside in unbelief. When the prophetic program resumes in the coming Day of the Lord, the Kingdom Church will be re-established. The seven churches then, to whom John is writing, are seven local assemblies in Asia that are a part of the greater Kingdom Church. We must carefully distinguish between this church and the Church, the Body of Christ, of which we are members. The new entity called the Church, which is His Body (Col. 1:18), is only found in
                  Paul’s epistles.
                  Just some of the points he raises within his multi-volume commentary on the book of Revelation - it does not look like Sadler - who holds a Mid-Acts Dispensational Perspective (more or less *) - does not support your ever obvious hybrid (or MIX) of Acts 2 Dispensationalism WITH Mid-Acts (Dispensationalism).
                  _________

                  * More or less, in the sense that his, and the BBS's belief that some of the gifts are still in operation is a departure from a strictly Mid-Acts application to the study of this question also.

                  Stam commits the same mistake at the end of his nevertheless, great, great book on the fundamentals of Mid-Acts Dispensationalism “Things That Differ.”

                  At the beginning of that great little book, he lays out some basic Bible study principles he then consistently applies throughout the book, only to depart from their application, in his article asserting that the Twelve were in the Body, at the end of the book.

                  Bullinger (Acts 28 Dispensationalism) is observed doing something similar in his nevertheless, must read book on Bible study principles “How to Enjoy the Bible.”

                  He lays out all these really sound Bible study principles (which is what his book is actually about), only to violate some of them, here and there, as evidenced in his book, when upon reading some of his assertions in that same book, and actually pauses to apply Bullinger's stated study principles to those assertions.

                  Well, brother, compared to those two great men, you take the cake - and eat it, too, with your seemingly endless, Mid-Acts / Acts 2 interpolations.

                  Mid-Acts Based Bible Study is Mid-Acts Based Bible Study - it is not a hybrid, or mix, of where Mid-Acts approaches the study of things from, with where Acts 2 Dispensationalism does.

                  I know, I know - you disagree…

                  Happy New Year, anyway!

                  And everyone else also, for that matter!

                  Because Rom. 5:6-11.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As usual you go on and on but fail to answer the main point that I made--the Twelve were taught to be expecting an "imminent" appearance of the Lord Jesus and the only appearance spoken of by anyone is the appearance when living believers will be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air.

                    No living believer will be made like the Lord Jesus when He returns to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom but John spoke of that very thing happening at the appearance of the Lord Jesus:
                    "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).

                    Those who received John's epistles were taught that since the Lord Jesus' appearance at the rapture is imminent that they would be alive when the Lord Jesus appears--"when he shall appear...we shall see him as he is."

                    They were also taught that "when he shall appear... we shall be like him."

                    Are you so uninformed that you think that will happen to the living believers when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom? Don't you even know that Paul calls that a "mystery" and it is the "mystery" truths which apply to the Body of Christ?:
                    "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Cor.15:51-52).

                    The ideas which you champion concerning the Twelve comes straight from Acts 28 dispensationalism. You really need to learn the difference between "prophecy" and "mystery" or else you will continue to believe your hybrid nonsense.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                      As usual you go on and on but fail to answer the main point that I made--the Twelve were taught to be expecting an "imminent" appearance of the Lord Jesus and the only appearance spoken of by anyone is the appearance when living believers will be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air.

                      No living believer will be made like the Lord Jesus when He returns to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom but John spoke of that very thing happening at the appearance of the Lord Jesus:
                      "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).

                      Those who received John's epistles were taught that since the Lord Jesus' appearance at the rapture is imminent that they would be alive when the Lord Jesus appears--"when he shall appear...we shall see him as he is."

                      They were also taught that "when he shall appear... we shall be like him."

                      Are you so uninformed that you think that will happen to the living believers when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom? Don't you even know that Paul calls that a "mystery" and it is the "mystery" truths which apply to the Body of Christ?:
                      "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Cor.15:51-52).

                      The ideas which you champion concerning the Twelve comes straight from Acts 28 dispensationalism. You really need to learn the difference between "prophecy" and "mystery" or else you will continue to believe your hybrid nonsense.


                      You old cuss, good to see you've not lost your spit-fire. Given your thick skin, I've missed our duels.

                      To the hunt! Vassal my sword!

                      Apparantly, Jerry, you ignore passages of Scripture like Joel 1:15, the very trying of their faith that both Peter in Acts 2 and 3 and James in James 1, and John in his writings about Anti-Christ, are ever going on about to the Believing Remnant of Israel that those three men had agreed with Paul, before Galatians 2:7-9 was even written - that they would confine their ministry to, while Paul would deal with the Uncircumcision - defined by him in Romans 2:25, and Romans 3:9 - as both Unbelieving Jews and Gentiles.

                      You see, Jerry, you continually make the exact same mistake that a lot of people make when attempting to point out a thing to one another.

                      They'll point to a verse or two here and there that they believe will make their point - but given where they alone are looking at things from.

                      Which fails, repeatedly.

                      Because what is needed is the overall frame of reference any passage or passages are always based on.

                      Therein lies your consistent failure to get through to me with your endless Acts 2 authors, dictionaries, and a verse or two taken out of the entire frame of reference they are actually based on, until ripped from same by your kind.

                      Your failure is due to the frame of reference I read all posts from - the very frame of reference contained in the passages I cited in this post.

                      Exactly why my posts to you fail to even make sense to you.

                      Because you are not following the frame of reference these things are to be looked at from, to begin with - passages like Galatians 2:7-9, Romans 2:25 and Romans 3:9, and while I'm at it,1 Thessalonians 2:15, 16.

                      THERE is my hybrid, or mix of things into one thing - what Paul says about Israel's having fallen as early as 2 Thessalonians 2, implies even earlier, in Galatians 2, where he describes the agreement between him and those three men, with Israel's fall, the same basic frame of reference which he elaborates on in much greater detail, years later, in Romans 2 and 3, and in 9 thru 11, now that he is winding down his Uncircumcision ministry in that part of the world, Romans 15: 23.

                      Til you get stronger in all that - "by reason of use" in contrast to all that time you obviously invest in the endless books of men - I suspect your man made hybrid and my Pauline based one will continue to be at odds with one another.

                      Personally, I'm fine with that, as I find all views, no matter how sound or unsound, fascinating.

                      Its called being objective. Try it sometime you Robert (not even close to Spencer Tracy's acting) Mitchum fan.



                      Romans 5:6-11, Jerry - in each, our stead!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Bla, bla, bla...

                        You still run and hide from the passages in the Jewish epistles which speak of an "imminent" appearance of the Lord Jesus and the words of John here:

                        "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).

                        Those who received John's epistles were taught that since the Lord Jesus' appearance at the rapture is imminent that they would be alive when the Lord Jesus appears--"when he shall appear...we shall see him as he is."

                        They were also taught that "when he shall appear... we shall be like him."

                        Are you so uninformed that you think that will happen to the living believers when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom? Don't you even know that Paul calls that a "mystery" and it is the "mystery" truths which apply to the Body of Christ?:

                        "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed"
                        (1 Cor.15:51-52).

                        You still have not learned that the "mystery" truths apply to the Body of Christ.

                        Your teaching is hybrid because it combines the teaching of Mid Acts with the teaching of Bullingerism. One of the founders of Mid Acts dispensationalism was J.C. O'Hair. On the Berean Bible Society webpage we read the following about him:

                        "Pastor O’Hair was, without a doubt, the one person who, more than any other, was used of God to establish among believers what Paul, by inspiration calls, “the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery.” He knew that he had the Scriptural solution to the current theological confusion and preached the Word with great power. His oral ministry (including radio) and his many books had a profound effect on thousands here and abroad. As a gospel preacher and soul winner he was without a peer just because he understood so clearly the truth of the unadulterated “gospel of the grace of God.” The Church, all over the world, owes him much."

                        J.C. O'Hair had the following to say about your hybrid teaching that the Twelve were not members of the Body of Christ:

                        "Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse"
                        [emphasis mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).

                        You are half and half, agreeing with the Mid Acts position that the present dispensation began in the Mid Acts period of time but agreeing with Bullingerism that the Twelve are not in the Body.

                        Hybrid to the core!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I see my post went right past ya...again.



                          Very well.

                          In plain English, as with The Body's imminency hope, even now, 2 Cor. 5:9; Titus 2:13, The Little Flock's imminency hope, ended up and remains ever imminent, 2 Peter 3, until now, or to this very minute, Romans 11:25-29.

                          Acts 17:11, 12.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Danoh View Post
                            I see my post went right past ya...again.



                            Very well.

                            In plain English, as with The Body's imminency hope, even now, 2 Cor. 5:9; Titus 2:13, The Little Flock's imminency hope, ended up and remains ever imminent, 2 Peter 3, until now, or to this very minute, Romans 11:25-29.
                            The word "imminent" means that something can happen at any moment. The appearance of the Lord Jesus belonging to the saints who will go through the great tribulation cannot happen at any moment because before the Lord Jesus can appear then the abomination of desolation must first stand in the holy place (Mt.24:15-30).

                            All you prove is that you really understand little about the events of the rapture and you fail to understand that the "mystery" of 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 belongs to those in the Body of Christ.

                            Your hybrid ideas has left you totally confused and I see little hope for your recovery.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                              The word "imminent" means that something can happen at any moment. The appearance of the Lord Jesus belonging to the saints who will go through the great tribulation cannot happen at any moment because before the Lord Jesus can appear then the abomination of desolation must first stand in the holy place (Mt.24:15-30).

                              All you prove is that you really understand little about the events of the rapture and you fail to understand that the "mystery" of 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 belongs to those in the Body of Christ.

                              Your hybrid ideas has left you totally confused and I see little hope for your recovery.
                              Never mind that within The Believing Remnant's Imminency Doctrine "of that day" and even "that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father" - Mark 12:33.

                              All these years, and you have obviously not grown in an actually clear, let alone, clearer, and clearer understanding, of these kinds of things.

                              You are that long ago set, in your errors.

                              And how many times must one point out to you that a hybrid, or mix of things, is not necessarily good or bad in itself, rather that it depends on "of what sort it is."

                              Talk about a strong case of "one size fits all" -i-tis.

                              You really take the cake in that - and eat it too - all of it - in one big "one size fits all" bite.



                              You're quite a character, Jerry.

                              That right there is why your consistent failure to rightly divide the word of truth as to those Things That Differ beyond what little right you were rightly taught or read about - all those decades ago.

                              Well, at least you're in the Body, so in your case, we'll just have to wait until the Hope of Glory Himself straightens you out on these things in that Day.

                              "For the Day SHALL declare it" - 1 Cor. 3:13.

                              Yours in Him, Jer.

                              Romans 5:6-11.

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