Theology Club: can ya help a brother out

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I say no, I don't think so, because the gospel of salvation is not found in Peter or James.

Was not the "gospel" of which Peter speaks of in the following passage the same gospel which declares thatbelievers are redeemed by the blood of the Lord Jesus?:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19. But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot...Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:18-19,23-25).​

Are not Peter's words "this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" referring to the gospel that these believers were redeemed by the blood of the Lamb?
 

LoneStar

New member
None that obeyed the Gospel....none that believe the Gospel of Salvation.

Believing Jesus is the Son of God isn't the same as believing he raised from the dead, do you think?

I'm going with you on this one.
Scripture says if you don't believe Jesus rose from the dead then your faith is in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:14 KJV
(14) And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
Hold my hand and walk me through this ladies. You gals made me think of another question to ask respecting when the boc started. The verse of having to believe Jesus rose from the dead or your faith was in vain sorta makes it impossible for those before Jesus' resurrection to be able to make that determination. They could be believers in the foretold prophesies that it would happen to their Messiah, but I'm sure even the Pharisees believed the prophesies. It was the living flesh man Jesus that they had to make a determination of he was the real deal or not. That determination could not be made until after Jesus resurrected.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Now that's a good way to ask it. If you have some saved but not in the boc, then what was the purpose of creating the boc? I've heard tales of the boc being created to make Jews jealous. I have difficulty finding any jealous Jews.

Well, if there will be some one earth and some in heaven....looks like there might be a difference.

John 14:1-3
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
 

LoneStar

New member
If Paul had met a Jew that believed Peter's gospel but hadn't heard Paul's gospel, would Paul try to convert him to his gospel by saying you don't have the correct gospel for this dispensation, or would he say you know enough so don't fret it? Does it have anything to do with Paul saying he would not build on another's foundation? This all makes me scratch my head.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
That is one reason it seems silly for some to say the BOC has always been and every believer since the beginning is in the BOC.
If that were true, it would not be a new creation.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Of course they are not the same thing. But you did not address my point that this is what Paul told all those that in every place who call on the name of Jesus Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"
(1 Cor.12:13).​

From this can we not understand that when Paul wrote those words all of the saved were baptized into the Body of Christ? And would that not include the Jews who received Peter's epistles:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).​

Now you're really going to make me think, aren't ya? :hammer:

I think there is a difference. Yes, there were Jews and Gentiles who believed the Gospel and were saved by grace through faith. And yet there are a lot of people who were saved before the Holy Spirit came to dwell in the believer (the Comforter). They had no Comforter in the OT, but the Spirit came and went (was with, but did not indwell).

Peter speaks of being "redeemed" by the blood of the Lamb, but does he preach justification by faith tied in to the resurrection?
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
If Paul had met a Jew that believed Peter's gospel but hadn't heard Paul's gospel, would Paul try to convert him to his gospel by saying you don't have the correct gospel for this dispensation, or would he say you know enough so don't fret it? Does it have anything to do with Paul saying he would not build on another's foundation? This all makes me scratch my head.
I think your dilemma will boil down to one question .......
If believing Paul's gospel automatically places you in the BOC,
then if Peter believed Paul's gospel at any time, he should automatically be in the BOC.
If he did believe Paul's gospel, but still was not automatically placed in the BOC,
then you've got to come up with an explanation of what is was that kept him out of the BOC.
:popcorn:
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Was not the "gospel" of which Peter speaks of in the following passage the same gospel which declares thatbelievers are redeemed by the blood of the Lord Jesus?:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19. But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot...Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:18-19,23-25).​

Are not Peter's words "this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" referring to the gospel that these believers were redeemed by the blood of the Lamb?

I have a question for you, Jerry. I notice Peter talks about the priesthood (which Paul doesn't, does he?).

Don't you think it's one of the differences from being a member of the body of Christ?
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
If Paul had met a Jew that believed Peter's gospel but hadn't heard Paul's gospel, would Paul try to convert him to his gospel by saying you don't have the correct gospel for this dispensation, or would he say you know enough so don't fret it? Does it have anything to do with Paul saying he would not build on another's foundation? This all makes me scratch my head.

I agree. Getting down to the real nitty-gritty here, aren't we?
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Now you're really going to make me think, aren't ya? :hammer:

I think there is a difference. Yes, there were Jews and Gentiles who believed the Gospel and were saved by grace through faith. And yet there are a lot of people who were saved before the Holy Spirit came to dwell in the believer (the Comforter). They had no Comforter in the OT, but the Spirit came and went (was with, but did not indwell).

Peter speaks of being "redeemed" by the blood of the Lamb, but does he preach justification by faith tied in to the resurrection?
Well, I'll give ya something else to think about.

Notice the following about the OT saints on their way to Canaan from their captivity in Egypt (the exodus).

1 Corinthians 10:1-5 KJV
(1) Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
(2) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
(3) And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
(4) And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

ALL had the same.
But wait, it continues ...

(5) But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.



You can get the spiritual drink, the living water, from Christ, and be baptized, and still be rejected.
That cannot be said of the BOC.
 
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