Theology Club: can ya help a brother out

glorydaz

Well-known member
No, at Acts 2 no one was baptized into the Body of Christ. I do not think that the Body of Christ began on the day of Pentecost. And I do not think that Paul was the first person who was baptized into the Body of Christ (Ro.16:7).

Okay, in regards to whether Paul was the first person in the body of Christ....Paul talks about the "churches of Judea being "in Christ". Surely entire churches are not in the body of Christ in the same way we enter into the body on an individual basis. This has to relate to the same early church from Acts 2, don't you think?

Gal. 1:22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:​

I'm not ignoring the rest of your post, but I think it's important to address the differences between the early church and the "body of Christ". In fact, I'm wondering if it isn't closer to John 15, as far as being in Him. Perhaps being related to the vine. :idunno:

John 15:3-4 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.​
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Now that's a good way to ask it. If you have some saved but not in the boc, then what was the purpose of creating the boc? I've heard tales of the boc being created to make Jews jealous. I have difficulty finding any jealous Jews.
Follow the yellow brick road. And this road may make some MADists uneasy.

Read these and the verses surrounding them.



Romans 11 KJV
(11) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.


Romans 10 KJV
(19) But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.


Moses saith


Deuteronomy 32:21 KJV
(21) They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
 

LoneStar

New member
Follow the yellow brick road. And this road may make some MADists uneasy.

Read these and the verses surrounding them.



Romans 11 KJV
(11) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.


Romans 10 KJV
(19) But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.


Moses saith


Deuteronomy 32:21 KJV
(21) They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
With jealousy comes anger. I get that. I still don't get why Israel would be jealous and angry with the boc if their gospel saved them just as Paul's gospel saved the boc. I'll stew on it and see if anything clicks in my hard noggin.
 

LoneStar

New member
Last night I was reading through Genesis of Abraham justified before the law came. The law came later. It is said that the law cannot annul that promise. I'm taking that to mean that the law could never annul that previous promise. Is that correct? If yes, then Israel was always able to be justified apart from the law. When did Israel start thinking they could not be justified apart from the law? Were they supposed to think they now needed the law to be justified when the law was given to them? Did the requirement to be justified change when the law came?
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
TOL may be too advanced for me. Is there a internet site for MAD dummies?
You are doing fine.
You are asking the same type questions we have all asked at some point.
It's the same type questions Paul anticipated ----- Is GOD through with Israel as a national people?
And Paul gives us the direct answer to those type questions ----- no, GOD is not through with Israel as a national people.

And no, there is no other site in the universe that is better than TOL. :first:

Keep this in mind ......
You can know the correct time without knowing how the watch was built.
GOD has already given us the correct answer ----- no, GOD is not through with Israel as a national people.
We don't have to be given every detail of how that comes about to know it is correct, anymore than you have to know every detail of the 6 days of creation to know it is correct.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Personally, I don't think it's referring to actual "mansions", but places. For instance, the Apostles will sit on 12 thrones and rule over someone on earth...during the millenium (perhaps), while the members of the body will be in heaven.

After believers will meet the Lord in the air it is said that they will be with Him forever:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:17).​

Sometime after that happens the Lord Jesus will return to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom and will not those who were caught up with Him return to the earth with Him?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Last night I was reading through Genesis of Abraham justified before the law came. The law came later. It is said that the law cannot annul that promise. I'm taking that to mean that the law could never annul that previous promise. Is that correct? If yes, then Israel was always able to be justified apart from the law.

The Israelites who lived under the law were saved in the same way that we are:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

We can see proof of that when we see what the Lord Jesus said to a woman who lived under the law:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Last night I was reading through Genesis of Abraham justified before the law came. The law came later. It is said that the law cannot annul that promise. I'm taking that to mean that the law could never annul that previous promise. Is that correct? If yes, then Israel was always able to be justified apart from the law. When did Israel start thinking they could not be justified apart from the law? Were they supposed to think they now needed the law to be justified when the law was given to them? Did the requirement to be justified change when the law came?

I think God has always wanted people to trust in Him for their justification (through faith). But man is always seeking to be the center of attention. They start thinking they can do the very things they were never meant to do....walk apart from the Lord. Pride comes in, as it did with Israel. He gave them the law to show them they were unable to keep it on their own. They not only didn't see that, Moses added more and more and more for them to try to keep. Until man is literally brought to his knees, he refuses to accept he can only be justified before God through faith.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
After believers will meet the Lord in the air it is said that they will be with Him forever:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:17).​

Sometime after that happens the Lord Jesus will return to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom and will not those who were caught up with Him return to the earth with Him?

Do you think that's during the thousand years or after the new heavens and earth?
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
I think that those who will be caught up with the Lord Jesus in the air will, at some point in time, return to the earth with the Lord Jesus when He sets up His kingdom at the beginning of the 1000 years.

That's the position I've held, however, 'the earthly people' and 'the heavenly people' is a concept held by many in the dispensational stream.

Hey, Jerry, got any comments on 'the great commission' given to the twelve with regard to water baptism?
If that program had continued, would every person on earth who believed and repented been water baptized?
Some say water baptism was connected to Israel as a kingdom of priests, but the nations wouldn't have been priests along with Israel would they? To enter the earthly kingdom, didn't all nations need to be water baptized? So, if we, the BOC, are coming back to earth for the Mill.. how come we don't need to be water baptized according to some dispensationalists?
Thanks!
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I think that those who will be caught up with the Lord Jesus in the air will, at some point in time, return to the earth with the Lord Jesus when He sets up His kingdom at the beginning of the 1000 years.

Then there will be people living on the earth who are still in the flesh...during that thousand years? This is the part I'm really confused about. :think:

Revelation 20:3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.​
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Then there will be people living on the earth who are still in the flesh...during that thousand years? This is the part I'm really confused about. :think:

Revelation 20:3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.​

There will be people, both Israelites and Gentiles who endure to the end and enter the earthly Davidic Messianic kingdom without a bodily change.

For instance:


Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


There will be need for healing for unglorified bodies during the earthly reign. People will die from sin.
People will populate the planet much as Shem, Ham and Japheth did post-flood.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
There will be people, both Israelites and Gentiles who endure to the end and enter the earthly Davidic Messianic kingdom without a bodily change.

For instance:


Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


There will be need for healing for unglorified bodies during the earthly reign. People will die from sin.
People will populate the planet much as Shem, Ham and Japheth did post-flood.

Really? Evil and good dwelling together? Having their unglorified bodies being healed? :think:


Maybe this is why I doubted the thousand year reign in the past. Perhaps that thousand years is a day?
 

LoneStar

New member
Are there not 2 regathering, 2 temples built, and 2 wars of armies attacking Israel?

The impression I get is the following outline.

1. Israel regathers at least partially into the land and builds a temple the antichrist sets up the abomination of desolation. This regathering could possibly be orchestrated through the antichrist's false hope of peace.
The false peace is disrupted by the abomination of desolation and great tribulation is poured out on Israel and they are told to flee. Another scattering of them.

2. Christ comes and defeats the armies against Israel. Takes his seat on the throne and builds the kingdom and new temple for the millennium. Peace and safety for 1000 years as Satan is bound for that 1000 years.

3. Satan is loosed after the 1000 years and gathers another army to attack Israel. Defeated permanently.


My inclination is that there are 2 gatherings to the land, 2 wars against Israel and 2 temples built. Separating which prophesy goes with which one may prove to be confusing.

Another thing I get mixed up about is how those mortals that are still living after that 2nd war after the millennium when Satan is loosed will receive a glorified body for eternity. Are they killed or finally all die and then resurrected or are they changed in a twinkling of the eye as we are for the rapture?
 

LoneStar

New member
Keep this in mind ......
You can know the correct time without knowing how the watch was built.
GOD has already given us the correct answer ----- no, GOD is not through with Israel as a national people.
We don't have to be given every detail of how that comes about to know it is correct, anymore than you have to know every detail of the 6 days of creation to know it is correct.
Makes my homework easier.
 
Top