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  • Theology Club: the first and second sending of Paul

    These two sendings are not the same anymore than the Gentiles to whom the Lord sent Paul were the same!

    Luke recording the Acts 9 first sending of Paul

    Acts 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

    Luke recording Paul's testimony of the second sending (Acts 22:17-21 KJV)

    Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

    "Now I send thee" and "I will send thee" are not the same!


    If you want to talk the same: all of the above are now in the same, one Body (Ephesians 2:14-18 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV), but even their course was not the same!
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

  • #2
    Originally posted by heir View Post

    If you want to talk the same: all of the above are now in the same, one Body (Ephesians 2:14-18 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV), but even their course was not the same!


    So important.
    Originally posted by Interplanner
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Originally posted by Interplanner
    You're too literal to get it.
    Originally posted by Interplanner
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by heir View Post
      These two sendings are not the same anymore than the Gentiles to whom the Lord sent Paul were the same!

      Luke recording the Acts 9 first sending of Paul

      Acts 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

      Luke recording Paul's testimony of the second sending (Acts 22:17-21 KJV)

      Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

      "Now I send thee" and "I will send thee" are not the same!


      If you want to talk the same: all of the above are now in the same, one Body (Ephesians 2:14-18 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV), but even their course was not the same!
      Yes, I noticed the two different dispatches of Paul while reading Acts, very distinct.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by heir View Post
        These two sendings are not the same anymore than the Gentiles to whom the Lord sent Paul were the same!

        Luke recording the Acts 9 first sending of Paul

        Acts 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

        Luke recording Paul's testimony of the second sending (Acts 22:17-21 KJV)

        Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

        "Now I send thee" and "I will send thee" are not the same!


        If you want to talk the same: all of the above are now in the same, one Body (Ephesians 2:14-18 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV), but even their course was not the same!
        Nope. Both are the same sending.

        Both Acts 22 and 26 are an account of what happened in Acts 9 when Paul returned to Jerusalem from Damascus.

        But you and yours (those who also hold this error) have failed to rightly divide between Paul’s first return to Jerusalem in Acts 9, and his later visit to Jerusalem in Acts 21, many years later.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Danoh View Post
          Nope. Both are the same sending.

          Both Acts 22 and 26 are an account of what happened in Acts 9 when Paul returned to Jerusalem from Damascus.

          But you and yours (those who also hold this error) have failed to rightly divide between Paul’s first return to Jerusalem in Acts 9, and his later visit to Jerusalem in Acts 21, many years later.
          Why?

          Comment


          • #6
            Luke 24:47 and other passages throughout Early Acts have Jerusalem as the focal point of God’s Prophetic aspect of His Two-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery.

            But a Dispensational change has taken place, greatly impacting that. Thus, when Paul goes up to Jerusalem in Galatians 2, some years after his first return to Jerusalem from Damascus, he does not go there for James, Cephas and John's approval of his ministry among the Gentiles, rather, to straighten out a confusion this Dispensational change has resulted in, Gal. 2:7-9.

            Question - Years earlier, given the Mystery aspect of God's Two-Fold Purpose where had Paul ended up setting up headquarters, after he first returned to Jerusalem from Damascus and then left for Tarsus, in Acts 9: 26-29?

            Answer: “Far hence” from Jerusalem!

            In Acts 9:30, Paul, having returned to Jerusalem after his time in Damascus; leaves Jerusalem via Caesarea for Tarsus, some 250 miles away.

            Sometime later, in Acts 11: 25-26, we read that Paul travels to Antioch, which is some 86 miles from Tarsus, and about 300 miles from Jerusalem. This is the "far hence unto the Gentiles" he will relate years later.

            Not surprisingly, we read there in Acts 11:

            25. Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
            26. And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

            Thus, this “far hence unto the Gentiles” is actually the issue of not only "far hence" from Jerusalem geographically, but spiritually, as well.

            Question - when in Acts did the Lord remind Paul he was sending him “far hence unto the Gentiles,” as related by Paul in Acts 22:21?

            Carefully contrast Acts 9 with Paul’s account of events in Acts 22 and Acts 26.

            What Paul relates in Acts 22:17-21 took place in Acts 9:26-29 (about 37 AD)

            While what Paul relates in Acts 26: 14-16 took place earlier in Acts 9:15-17 (about 34 AD).

            Both accounts are about events that took place in Acts 9. One within the first three years or so of Paul's conversion and ministry. The other, just after, when he first returned to Jerusalem from Damascus.

            In other words, in Acts 9 Paul returns to Jerusalem for the first time after his conversion on the road to Damascus, and ministry (in Damascus).

            At this point, Jerusalem has temporarily ceased being what it once was - the very center of spiritual influence unto the entire world, Matt. 5:35; 21:10, 13.

            This because Israel has joined the world's rebellion against "the LORD and His Christ, Acts 4: 25-26, and God has concluded Israel under the power of sin with the Gentiles, Rom. 1:18-3:19.

            God having foreknown this, had planned to and has, temporarily turned from Jerusalem as His spiritual center of influence, Acts 7:51-53, in light of Matt. 30-32, Rom. 9-11.

            The impact of this Dispensational change is once more brought home to Paul when he first leaves Damascus in Acts 9, in about 37 AD, and returns to Jerusalem for the first time (since his conversion on the road to Damascus in about 34 AD).

            It is this first return again unto Jerusalem in Acts 9, that he is relating, some 22 years later (about AD 59), in Acts 22:

            17. And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;
            18. And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.
            19. And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
            20. And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.
            21. And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

            (1) Paul gets saved on the road to Damascus, (2) begins his ministry there, (3) then returns to Jerusalem for the first time after his conversion. (4) While in a trance at the Temple in Jerusalem, (5) the Lord appears to him to remind him He has concluded Israel in unbelief; (6) that He is sending him far hence unto the Gentiles. (7) Thus, God's new center of influence under a new Apostle - the Apostle Paul and Antioch.

            All one need do is to carefully compare all three accounts – Acts 9, Acts 22, and Acts 26.
            Last edited by Danoh; October 20th, 2015, 12:16 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Acts 26
              16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;


              Acts 18
              21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

              22 And when he had landed at Caesarea, and gone up, and saluted the church, he went down to Antioch.
              Originally posted by Interplanner
              They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
              Originally posted by Interplanner
              You're too literal to get it.
              Originally posted by Interplanner
              The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
                Acts 26
                16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

                Acts 18
                21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

                22 And when he had landed at Caesarea, and gone up, and saluted the church, he went down to Antioch.
                Lol, methinks your understanding is at times lacking in a much more fully informed understanding of some things just as your words are lacking in my long winded ones

                Acts 18 is describing a later trip to Jerusalem some two decades later. He ends up there in this trip, in Acts 21:17.

                That trip does not solve for the chronology Paul describes in Acts 22; which matches Luke's account in Acts 9.

                Luke's account in Acts 9:

                18. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

                26. And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
                27. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
                28. And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.

                Paul's account of Acts 9 in Acts 22:

                12. And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
                13. Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
                14. And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
                15. For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
                16. And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
                17. And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;
                18. And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.
                19. And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
                20. And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.
                21. And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Another comparison

                  Paul at Jerusalem - Acts 8:

                  1. And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
                  2. And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.
                  3. As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

                  That picks up in Acts 9 - Paul is still at Jerusalem, when he leaves for Damascus:

                  1. And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
                  2. And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
                  3. And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
                  4. And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

                  In Acts 22, Paul begins with his having been at Jerusalem when he then went to Damascus to persecute saints there as well:

                  5. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
                  6. And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
                  7. And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

                  Instead, he gets saved, etc., and does not return again unto Jerusalem with those whom he'd intended to imprison.

                  16. And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

                  He only returns again unto Jerusalem some three years later:

                  17. And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

                  Gal. 3:

                  15. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
                  16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
                  17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
                  18. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
                    Why?
                    because he says so
                    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
                      Acts 26
                      16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
                      these things and those things
                      have appeared and will appear

                      Different!
                      Acts 18
                      21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

                      22 And when he had landed at Caesarea, and gone up, and saluted the church, he went down to Antioch.
                      That is the only time that would fit

                      Acts 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

                      Acts 22:18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.
                      2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                      Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Danoh View Post
                        17. And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;
                        18. And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.
                        19. And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
                        20. And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.
                        21. And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.
                        Paul was not in the temple when the Lord first appeared to him, but on the road to Damascus ("near Damascus")!

                        Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

                        Acts 9:2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

                        Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

                        Acts 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

                        Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
                        2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                        Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Danoh View Post
                          He only returns again unto Jerusalem some three years later:

                          17. And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

                          Gal. 3:

                          15. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
                          16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
                          17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
                          18. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
                          Nope! The above is not referring to the same! Aboding fifteen days with Peter is not making haste and getting out of dodge!


                          Acts 22:17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

                          Acts 22:18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.
                          2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                          Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by heir View Post
                            These two sendings are not the same anymore than the Gentiles to whom the Lord sent Paul were the same!

                            Luke recording the Acts 9 first sending of Paul

                            Acts 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

                            Luke recording Paul's testimony of the second sending (Acts 22:17-21 KJV)

                            Acts 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

                            "Now I send thee" and "I will send thee" are not the same.
                            Clarify, please...

                            Acts 9 Gentiles: "near" Gentiles with varying degrees of exposure and knowledge of Judaism?

                            Acts 22 Gentiles: hopeless pagan heathens like us?
                            "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
                            Terence Mc Lean

                            [most will be very surprised]


                            Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
                            By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by musterion View Post
                              Clarify, please...

                              Acts 9 Gentiles: "near" Gentiles with varying exposure and knowledge of Judaism?

                              Acts 26 Gentiles: hopeless heathens like us?
                              Lukes Acts 26:16-18 KJV account is a recording of Paul's Acts 9 "now I send thee" first sending to Gentiles IN the promise (Acts 13:26 KJV, Galatians 3:29 KJV).
                              2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                              Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

                              Comment

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