Theology Club: circumcised vs uncircumcised

[Dialogos]

Calvinism says that you cannot believe the gospel unless you are first regenerated or given life. That is why they teach that regeneration precedes faith.

But here we can see that life comes as a result of faith (and not before faith):

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

That's not what that verse implies Jerry, I think we have been over this.

ἵνα πιστεύοντες ζωὴν ἔχητε ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι αὐτοῦ.

πιστεύοντες is a present participle which often indicates time contemporaneous with that of the main verb which, in this case, is in the subjunctive. Therefore the timing of the belief is not the point of this verse at all. Furthermore the participle is part of a ἵνα clause which denotes purpose.

What this passage tells us is that their ongoing belief (and our believing) is for the purpose of having life. No Christian - Calvinist or otherwise - believes that a person has life in Christ apart from believing in Christ.

It doesn't answer the question of the ordo solutis like you want it to.

 

[Shasta]

That's not what that verse implies Jerry, I think we have been over this.

ἵνα πιστεύοντες ζωὴν ἔχητε ἐν τῷ ὀνόματι αὐτοῦ.

πιστεύοντες is a present participle which often indicates time contemporaneous with that of the main verb which, in this case, is in the subjunctive. Therefore the timing of the belief is not the point of this verse at all. Furthermore the participle is part of a ἵνα clause which denotes purpose.

What this passage tells us is that their ongoing belief (and our believing) is for the purpose of having life. No Christian - Calvinist or otherwise - believes that a person has life in Christ apart from believing in Christ.

It doesn't answer the question of the ordo solutis like you want it to.

You have given the proper interpretation. He is saying he is writing down the account of the miracles so that

believing they might have life​

Believing is one with finding life in this verse. There is no lacuna between the two.​