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Mutations: Accidents or not?

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  • Mutations: Accidents or not?

    At least one atheist evolutionist here complains when I call mutations accidents.

    My question is: what else can they be called but accidents? Are they purpose driven?
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Originally posted by Squeaky
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Originally posted by God's Truth
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  • #2
    Most mutations are errors. Some mutations are environment driven, which is the result of God's amazing design of the genetic mechanisms present in all organisms.

    My evidence for this is the 17 year experiment that was done on the finches.

    https://kgov.com/spetner

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
      Most mutations are errors. Some mutations are environment driven, which is the result of God's amazing design of the genetic mechanisms present in all organisms.

      My evidence for this is the 17 year experiment that was done on the finches.

      https://kgov.com/spetner
      I agree.

      I guess that I should have been more clear in my OP.

      From an atheist evolutionist viewpoint, which does not allow for any purpose in their completely materialist worldview, how can mutations be anything but purposeless accidents?
      All of my ancestors are human.
      Originally posted by Squeaky
      That explains why your an idiot.
      Originally posted by God's Truth
      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
        Some mutations are environment driven, which is the result of God's amazing design of the genetic mechanisms present in all organisms.
        Are you saying that environment-driven mutations (which is the result of God's amazing design of the genetic mechanisms present in all organisms) are beneficial mutations?

        Comment


        • #5
          I say that anything that happens within the laws of nature (which God created) is normal. If the laws of nature allow for mutations then they are normal. I think they do.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post
            I say that anything that happens within the laws of nature (which God created) is normal. If the laws of nature allow for mutations then they are normal. I think they do.
            The actual point is not whether they are "normal" but whether they are a creative force or are accidents that are detrimental to an original design.

            The creationist view is that they are not a creative force and cannot "design" anything but are corrupting existing designs.
            The evolutionist view is that they are the "fuel" that evolution uses to create complex interdependent systems.
            All of my ancestors are human.
            Originally posted by Squeaky
            That explains why your an idiot.
            Originally posted by God's Truth
            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post
              I say that anything that happens within the laws of nature (which God created) is normal. If the laws of nature allow for mutations then they are normal. I think they do.
              Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
              The actual point is not whether they are "normal" but whether they are a creative force or are accidents that are detrimental to an original design.

              The creationist view is that they are not a creative force and cannot "design" anything but are corrupting existing designs.
              The evolutionist view is that they are the "fuel" that evolution uses to create complex interdependent systems.
              Since I don't think that evolution and creationism are mutually exclusive, I don't see why they cannot be both. Who is to say that God's design does not include evolving changes and even species.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post

                Since I don't think that evolution and creationism are mutually exclusive, I don't see why they cannot be both. Who is to say that God's design does not include evolving changes and even species.
                You can think whatever you want. Mutations are errors and damage to the existing beings on this planet.

                Those that push the atheistic materialistic world view try to claim that mutations are a creative force, but science shows otherwise.

                Many Christians have tried to accommodate much of the atheistic materialistic world view into their beliefs. That is a huge mistake.
                All of my ancestors are human.
                Originally posted by Squeaky
                That explains why your an idiot.
                Originally posted by God's Truth
                Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Right Divider View Post

                  You can think whatever you want. Mutations are errors and damage to the existing beings on this planet.

                  Those that push the atheistic materialistic world view try to claim that mutations are a creative force, but science shows otherwise.

                  Many Christians have tried to accommodate much of the atheistic materialistic world view into their beliefs. That is a huge mistake.

                  I am no atheist. You can take that to the bank.

                  So with that in mind, you also cannot prove that God did not include in His great plan an evolving universe. There is no reason to be scared of the word "Evolution" just because atheists use it. It is pretty clear that their view of evolution is wrong since it excludes God. However, there is nothing wrong with entertaining the idea that God's plan includes an evolving Universe. Wondrous are his ways, and they are far, far above our understanding.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post


                    I am no atheist. You can take that to the bank.

                    So with that in mind, you also cannot prove that God did not include in His great plan an evolving universe. There is no reason to be scared of the word "Evolution" just because atheists use it. It is pretty clear that their view of evolution is wrong since it excludes God. However, there is nothing wrong with entertaining the idea that God's plan includes an evolving Universe. Wondrous are his ways, and they are far, far above our understanding.
                    The problem I have with reconciling an omnipotent and just God and evolution is that evolution relies on a process that produces disease, infirmity and death more often than supposed improvements
                    Last edited by ok doser; February 26, 2020, 12:23 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post

                      I am no atheist. You can take that to the bank.
                      I never even remotely hinted at any such thing.

                      Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post
                      So with that in mind, you also cannot prove that God did not include in His great plan an evolving universe.
                      That is irrelevant.

                      Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post
                      There is no reason to be scared of the word "Evolution" just because atheists use it.
                      I'm not the slightest bit scared to the word "Evolution". The point is that real science shows that things don't change into other things. Much less that accidents (mutations) can have the creative power to do just that.

                      Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post
                      It is pretty clear that their view of evolution is wrong since it excludes God. However, there is nothing wrong with entertaining the idea that God's plan includes an evolving Universe. Wondrous are his ways, and they are far, far above our understanding.
                      You can say things like that, but there is no reason to believe it based on the Bible and science.

                      All of my ancestors are human.
                      Originally posted by Squeaky
                      That explains why your an idiot.
                      Originally posted by God's Truth
                      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ok doser View Post

                        The problem I have with reconciling an omnipotent and just God and evolution is that evolution relies on a process that produces disease, infirmity and death more often than supposed improvements
                        What is the alternative? That God baked all those bad things into the cake?

                        Here is another thing to think about: God's original plan got jacked up when the first man and woman sinned, right? No more Eden, no more sinlessness, creation was "fallen." Maybe evolution is part of that.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It is pretty clear that their view of evolution is wrong since it excludes God. However, there is nothing wrong with entertaining the idea that God's plan includes an evolving Universe. Wondrous are his ways, and they are far, far above our understanding.
                          Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                          You can say things like that, but there is no reason to believe it based on the Bible and science.
                          Based on science there IS evidence to at least entertain the possibility.

                          As for the Bible, too many people interpret it to say what they want it to say. In fact, it says nothing on this issue.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post


                            Since I don't think that evolution and creationism are mutually exclusive, I don't see why they cannot be both. Who is to say that God's design does not include evolving changes and even species.
                            When you define "evolution" as "change over time," atheists win the discussion, because no one here argues that species do not change ever.

                            Stripe

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Trump Gurl View Post

                              What is the alternative? That God baked all those bad things into the cake?

                              Here is another thing to think about: God's original plan got jacked up when the first man and woman sinned, right? No more Eden, no more sinlessness, creation was "fallen." Maybe evolution is part of that.
                              if you're really interested in having your hair blown back on this stuff, take some time and chew on what PneumaPsucheSoma is serving - he posts all through this thread - if I get better service this evening I'll try to find some specific posts:

                              https://theologyonline.com/forum/pol...54#post2385954


                              I think this is where it starts getting deep:


                              https://theologyonline.com/forum/pol...71#post2386171


                              he really gets rolling here:


                              https://theologyonline.com/forum/pol...93#post2386193
                              Last edited by ok doser; February 26, 2020, 02:12 PM.

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