Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Grandstand discussion: "Ghost's Views on The Nature of Christ"

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I've said it before and it needs to be said again. Ghost does not need our ridicule and scorn, he deeds our prayers. He is, after all, a brother in Christ. And I have seen some of his posts when he is calm and collected and he does have a very good understanding of the Gospel even though is application of the Gospel may be a bit lacking. I have been attacked by him more than once and have a civil discussion with him upon occasion. I have needled him in an effort to get him to understand some of my points which probably is not the best way to engage him.

    So Ghost will leave us for a while. He will return either as Ghost or a new incarnation and when he does, we welcome home our prodigal son with open arms.

    Remember the Golden Rule - Treat others as you want to be treated. That does not mean that when somebody mistreats you you have the right the mistreat them in return. What it means is that regardless of how somebody treats you, you ALWAYS treat them as you want to be treated.
    Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    What are my fruits today?

    Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

    "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CabinetMaker View Post
      I've said it before and it needs to be said again. Ghost does not need our ridicule and scorn, he deeds our prayers. He is, after all, a brother in Christ. And I have seen some of his posts when he is calm and collected and he does have a very good understanding of the Gospel even though is application of the Gospel may be a bit lacking. I have been attacked by him more than once and have a civil discussion with him upon occasion. I have needled him in an effort to get him to understand some of my points which probably is not the best way to engage him.

      So Ghost will leave us for a while. He will return either as Ghost or a new incarnation and when he does, we welcome home our prodigal son with open arms.

      Remember the Golden Rule - Treat others as you want to be treated. That does not mean that when somebody mistreats you you have the right the mistreat them in return. What it means is that regardless of how somebody treats you, you ALWAYS treat them as you want to be treated.

      I agree.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
        Dave's main "fault" is that he cares too much about the gospel, and doesn't want to see anyone go to hell. I admire that in the man.
        I know mature believers who are passionate for Christ/gospel/lost. They act nothing like poor Dave. The problem is that he has zeal without knowledge/wisdom. He turns things into us/me vs them because he adds to the gospel (sozoisms). He does not speak truth in love, but displays arrogance, ignorance, flesh. He is not the Messiah, not a guru, but he is a godplayer, jury, judge, executioner. He has a stress/anger issue, instability, lack of discernment, etc. He also has other good qualities that could be channeled if he truly walked in the Spirit and had the mind of Christ. It does not help that he is not under authority of local church leadership, but is a Lone Ranger without checks/balances.

        Godly believers who don't want anyone to go to hell (including Jesus/Paul) do not act like he does. He needs to repent and grow, not be coddled. He has an ego and wants to be right at all costs. He fails to see when he is wrong. Pride goes before a fall. More heat than light follows in his wake.

        He argues more about doctrinal things than the gospel. He does not share the gospel in a winsome way, but plays the role of accuser of the brethren creating confusion and chaos, not clarity.

        I have not seen him in person, but I would not be surprised if he turns more people off than on to Christ. The gospel can be an offense, but we should not be personally offensive for no good reason.

        He may also suffer from short man only child syndrome (SMOCS).
        Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

        They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
        I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

        Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

        "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

        The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
          I agree.
          Moi aussi, mostly (he makes the gospel more narrow than it is and excludes legit believers).
          Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

          They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
          I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

          Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

          "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

          The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Guyver View Post
            Who's Dave? Are we still talking about Ghost?

            What do you mean he cares too much about the gospel and doesn't want to see anyone go to hell?

            He's told me to go to hell two or three times already.

            He's called me and my family a bunch of Christless perverts.

            That's not caring too much about the gospel or a person's salvation; it's just a fail.
            He tells any 'opponent' to jump in front of a train, go to hell and drag your family there, can't wait to see you fry, etc.

            He is an arrogant, insecure megalomaniac. I will also be the first to love, restore, welcome him (my wife fears he will find out where we live).
            Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

            They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
            I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

            Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

            "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

            The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by CabinetMaker View Post
              I've said it before and it needs to be said again. Ghost does not need our ridicule and scorn, he deeds our prayers. He is, after all, a brother in Christ. And I have seen some of his posts when he is calm and collected and he does have a very good understanding of the Gospel even though is application of the Gospel may be a bit lacking. I have been attacked by him more than once and have a civil discussion with him upon occasion. I have needled him in an effort to get him to understand some of my points which probably is not the best way to engage him.

              So Ghost will leave us for a while. He will return either as Ghost or a new incarnation and when he does, we welcome home our prodigal son with open arms.

              Remember the Golden Rule - Treat others as you want to be treated. That does not mean that when somebody mistreats you you have the right the mistreat them in return. What it means is that regardless of how somebody treats you, you ALWAYS treat them as you want to be treated.
              Couldn't agree more. I was saddened by his failure here and remain fond of Dave else. God bless, keep and instruct him and may he return to us the better for it.
              You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

              Pro-Life






              Comment


              • Originally posted by Town Heretic View Post
                Couldn't agree more. I was saddened by his failure here and remain fond of Dave else. God bless, keep and instruct him and may he return to us the better for it.
                This has happened many times. He is yet to return changed since he probably thinks he has no faults and the rest of us are the problem. He is like a martyr for his own cause (like cults who feel vindicated if they are persecuted).
                Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by godrulz View Post
                  He tells any 'opponent' to jump in front of a train, go to hell and drag your family there, can't wait to see you fry, etc.

                  He is an arrogant, insecure megalomaniac. I will also be the first to love, restore, welcome him (my wife fears he will find out where we live).
                  You can't resore one who doesn't repent. There's nothing to restore from. He doesn't believe in repentance, except unto salvation.

                  Therefore, he doesn't believe he has done any wrong. If you attempt to "welcome" him or restore him; you miss the point.

                  Until he acknowledges his faults, weaknesses, and sins; they will continue just as they always have.

                  PS. To Cabinet Maker. If you want to pray for him; may I suggest you begin to pray that he learns how to repent.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by godrulz View Post
                    Moi aussi, mostly (he makes the gospel more narrow than it is and excludes legit believers).
                    exactly

                    I would hate to be judged by his 'form' of gospel.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Guyver View Post
                      You can't resore one who doesn't repent. There's nothing to restore from. He doesn't believe in repentance, except unto salvation. Therefore, he doesn't believe he has done any wrong. If you attempt to "welcome" him or restore him; you miss the point.

                      Until he acknowledges his faults, weaknesses, and sins; they will continue just as they always have.

                      PS. To Cabinet Maker. If you want to pray for him; may I suggest you begin to pray that he learns how to repent.
                      I believe repentance is a one time thing, too...(not that not knowing that is a salvational issue).

                      The problem does not come forth from there, in mho..it is derived from the false thought that we, as christians are NOT under a 'form' of law. Some have simply forgotten that Faith worketh by love..and, without love, there is no 'light' to anyone. Not that we work up this love; but it is the result of a changed heart. A heart that has been truly converted.

                      It is faith that worketh by LOVE; that is the law of Christ that we are under...and, hatred has no place in it.

                      He whom hates his brother, and openly shows it has not submitted to the law of Christ. I am NOT saying they are not saved...most of the time, these immature christians have to learn the hard way that God really does demand more from us than just what comes out of our mouths...Jesus said this on the matter:

                      Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me.


                      Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

                      A changed heart is walking by the law of Christ, via love that has been placed in it...by the working of the holy spirit.

                      We cannot judge anyone on this; as saved or unsaved because we all walk in the flesh and allow the flesh to rule us at times...that is why I do not judge anyone on this board...what we can judge is the actions..and, simply put, any actions that come forth from a mindset of 'hate' is not of God....

                      We are even commanded to love our enemies....if that is love that has been displayed here, I don't want any part of it.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
                        Dave's main "fault" is that he cares too much about the gospel, and doesn't want to see anyone go to hell. I admire that in the man.
                        I hope you are right about Dave, but I do not think his behavior here reflects that concern.

                        Across threads and over time and manifestation I think his views and theology to be outside the mainstream of Christian thought and belief. He might be right. I don't think so, but perhaps.

                        It seems to me that if you are going against 2000 years of tradition and thought [not that tradition has to be correct] you should be able assert what you believe, defend it from Scripture, interact with previously established points of view, and point out the weaknesses of those points of view in a logical and rational way, which in no way precludes passion.

                        Name-calling and insulting those whose beliefs you do not hold is hardly the way of making your point. Especially when you hold ideas that are on the fringe.

                        Peace,
                        Rick

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
                          I believe repentance is a one time thing, too...(not that not knowing that is a salvational issue).

                          It is faith that worketh by LOVE; that is the law of Christ that we are under...and, hatred has no place in it.

                          A changed heart is walking by the law of Christ, via love that has been placed in it...by the working of the holy spirit.
                          I agree with much of what you said here. But I do not agree that a person is only to repent one time. Sure, maybe the repentance of unbelief is a one time thing as it pertains to salvation; but to say that one never needs to repent again after that is entirely unBiblical. It's so clear, I don't see how anyone would view it any other way.

                          PM me if you want some scriptural support for that statement.

                          As far as Christianity being a religion of love, you are on the money. That's exactly what it is. We love Him because He first loved us. And, we are to love our brothers - that's pure Bible.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by godrulz View Post
                            He does not speak truth in love, but displays arrogance, ignorance, flesh. He is not the Messiah, not a guru, but he is a godplayer, jury, judge, executioner. He has a stress/anger issue, instability, lack of discernment, etc. He also has other good qualities that could be channeled if he truly walked in the Spirit and had the mind of Christ. It does not help that he is not under authority of local church leadership, but is a Lone Ranger without checks/balances.

                            Godly believers who don't want anyone to go to hell (including Jesus/Paul) do not act like he does. He needs to repent and grow, not be coddled. He has an ego and wants to be right at all costs. He fails to see when he is wrong. Pride goes before a fall. More heat than light follows in his wake.

                            He argues more about doctrinal things than the gospel. He does not share the gospel in a winsome way, but plays the role of accuser of the brethren creating confusion and chaos, not clarity.

                            I have not seen him in person, but I would not be surprised if he turns more people off than on to Christ. The gospel can be an offense, but we should not be personally offensive for no good reason.

                            He may also suffer from short man only child syndrome (SMOCS).
                            You have said so much that's on the money here, I don't even know where to start. To me, someone who truly believes would be passionate about sharing their faith; and they would find a proper way to do it. Anyone who really believes the Bible wouldn't want their worst enemy to go to hell - let alone someone who already says they believe in Jesus Christ.

                            As far as the other issues go, I also agree; and as I said very early in this thread - I truly believe I've been able to see why.

                            I'm just going to list a few attributes of a person with APD. I've personally known someone who has this. They have a lot of superficial charm and can appear very intelligent. Yet they also display other characteristics, that are reflective of extreme egotism or narcissism. These are just a few.

                            Apparent lack of remorse or empathy for others
                            Persistent lying or stealing
                            Poor behavioral controls — expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper
                            A history of childhood conduct disorder
                            Promiscuity
                            Tendency to violate the boundaries and rights of others Aggressive, often violent behavior; prone to getting involved in fights
                            Inability to tolerate boredom
                            Poor or abusive relationships
                            Irresponsible work behavior
                            Disregard for safety
                            Cruelty to animals

                            Obviously, it would take a personal inventory to identify more of these, but some are clearly visible.

                            Comment


                            • Ghost does not believe in 'mental illness'.
                              Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                              They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                              I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                              Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                              "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                              The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                              Comment


                              • The one-on-one thread is now officially closed, so my self-imposed moratorium of participating in this thread during the active debate can be lifted. I thought it best to not post here during the debate given the high tension between Ghost and myself.

                                I am obviously disappointed in how things ended. I have forgiven (dismissed the debt owed) Ghost's concluding vulgar epithets, and justice was handed out appropriately for them.

                                I hope Ghost will also forgive my own very direct assaults in the one-on-one. I could have adopted a more irenic approach, but I was often given over to my own anger and frustrations and did not hold back in showing the same. Unfortunately, the pre-debate chatbox discussion where some very ugly comments made therein determined my course in the debate. I should have let that whole discussion go by as but mere pre-show theatrics.

                                I won't seek out Ghost (Dave) for another one another one-on-one debate format. Our approaches to theological discourse are simply too far apart and I don't think God would be fully glorified by either of us in such a venue.

                                My key objective in the one-on-one was to showcase what I believe are some grave misunderstandings by some, Ghost in particular, related to Christology. I think I met my objective, albeit in part, and hopefully set some on a path of deeper study, prayer, and reflection on the topic. If this happens, then the discussion was successful.

                                As TH and others have said eloquently, Ghost needs our prayers. I lift them up on his behalf often. He obviously struggles with how he is perceived and this sensitivity often seems to rule his tongue, contra James 3. My prayers are that it be the will of God that Ghost's passion for what he holds dear be moderated by a kinder spirit in his witness. I pray that same prayer for myself daily.

                                AMR
                                Last edited by Ask Mr. Religion; March 15th, 2011, 12:48 AM. Reason: Spelling correction
                                Embedded links in my posts or in my sig below are included for a reason. Tolle Lege.



                                Do you confess?
                                Founder, Reformed Theology Institute
                                AMR's Randomata Blog
                                Learn Reformed Doctrine
                                I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.
                                Christian, catholic, Calvinist, confessional, Presbyterian (PCA).
                                Lex orandi, lex credenda: everyone is a Calvinist on their knees.
                                The best TOL Social Group: here.
                                If your username appears in blue and you have over 500 posts:
                                Why?


                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X