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  • IMJerusha
    replied
    Originally posted by wonderingjew View Post
    On a lighter note, since the majority of Christians today whether willingly or unknowingly leave the Torah behind I feel the principles of tithing and the blessing and all the Psalms should be "left behind" where they are buried with the Torah don't you agree? I was just wondering.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    Nope. Because, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." I wouldn't want to miss out on anything edifying.

    Leave a comment:


  • IMJerusha
    replied
    Originally posted by wonderingjew View Post
    The Messiah is the "Torah" made flesh wouldn't you agree? So disobedience to Messiah is "sin" yes? So many want to have the Kingdom but they don't want the King. As to what the Christian resolves to do each year I have yet to witness any of it so I will take your word on that.
    He would have to agree unless he disagrees with John. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

    Leave a comment:


  • IMJerusha
    replied
    Hmm, can't believe I almost missed this thread!

    I just love this post: "We do not obey to be saved we obey because that brings the Father honor and respect. Anyhoo... greasy grace is no substitute for obedience and the true Grace given us." To quote Steko, "Awh-main and Awh-main!"

    Leave a comment:


  • wonderingjew
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. 5020 View Post
    Why do people say that Christians ignore the Torah?

    Every year, hundreds of Christians set a resolution to read the entire Bible, then give up in March. Those people have read the Torah every single year!
    The Messiah is the "Torah" made flesh wouldn't you agree? So disobedience to Messiah is "sin" yes? So many want to have the Kingdom but they don't want the King. As to what the Christian resolves to do each year I have yet to witness any of it so I will take your word on that.

    Leave a comment:


  • patrick jane
    replied
    Originally posted by wonderingjew View Post
    Sometimes I would like to hear you make a rational point since it is way better for the listeners for you tohave a point when you speak.
    he scares me. but, wonderingjew, you make very good points, and i agree with alot of what you say. i never see a Torah laying round that i can read, but isn't it mostly the OT ? i certainly do not discout it or Judaism. i believe The Gospel of Christ supercedes it.

    Leave a comment:


  • wonderingjew
    replied
    Special to Someone.

    Originally posted by patrick jane View Post
    i have no knowledge of the "torah". only KJV, NIV type OT and NT Bible, but personally, i think jewish people take themselves too serious. overall, there is a general sense of jews thinking and acting like they are "special" or "chosen". that they are somehow closer to God and the Truth. it gets old. from what i understand, "jewish" people were historically nomadic, even before exodus. i don't know why i feel animosity and tension over Judiasm as the true Faith. Christianity supercedes Judiasm and is superior. basically, i disagree with jews, or anyone for that matter, who does not believe Jesus Is The Messiah, God on earth. it is Written -
    Hi P.J.
    I do agree with you that Judaism is lacking and as Christianity should not be a branch of Judaism, I have found some disgusting practices in both religions. Don't worry too much about the feeling of superiority by either religion since we are only the servants and sons of YHVH and the "One new man" is all that really matters.
    Recall history for a moment and recall how 'superior' the Church was toward Jews all through history even to the slaughter of Jews in droves. Believe me I had a lot of forgiving to do to even want to listen to what a Christian has to say. Collective memory or some weird spiritual stuff. How do you see the passage Romans 11:11-12? I would be blessed to hear your thoughts on this passage.

    Leave a comment:


  • wonderingjew
    replied
    Originally posted by Letsargue View Post
    Who told you All that?? Where did you read that??
    The New Testament / Christ's Testimony IS The "ONLY" Place to find the TRUTH / CHRIST / - "The All Mighty GOD"!!! -- Not in the Old Testimony of the Father of CHRIST!!

    (( Isaiah 9:6 KJV )) -- 6- "( For unto US a Child is Born ), ( unto US a SON is Given ): and the Government shall be upon HIS shoulder: and ( His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, ((( "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" ))), The Prince of Peace". --//-----

    Paul, David -- 123114!!
    Sometimes I would like to hear you make a rational point since it is way better for the listeners for you tohave a point when you speak.

    Leave a comment:


  • Letsargue
    replied
    Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
    ...you need to read the bible to find where I got it.....do you got a bible?

    I don't Read the False Truth given Only by the FALSE CHRIST!!! My God NEVER SAID That!!

    Paul, David -- 123114!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Totton Linnet
    replied
    ...you need to read the bible to find where I got it.....do you got a bible?

    Leave a comment:


  • Letsargue
    replied
    Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
    I don't think you quite got it. The law for US has been nailed to the cross. We live by the power of His life.

    If you will live by the law it will have it's effect on you.

    Thou shalt not lust...immediately you start looking for lust in your members, it was dead, slain by the cross but you by trying to overcome it by obedience to it have brought it back to life....and how.

    You don't think He quite GOT IT?????
    Where did you GET What You have just said in both of you Nothings - HERE???
    God hasn't said Anything You or he CAN USE to defend yourselves OR Your "god"!!!
    The "SWORD of the Spirit is the Word of GOD"!! - What do any of you so called -- "christians" use to Defend YOUR GOD / SATAN???? -- ((( NOTHING Written by GOD )))!!!! Just garbage Satan Gave you to defend HIM!!!

    Paul, David -- 123114

    Leave a comment:


  • Totton Linnet
    replied
    Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    In context the verses you reference say you must fulfill one commandment of the Torah, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself"

    James 2:8-12
    8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
    9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
    10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
    11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
    12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.




    According to the logic behind your comment, if you keep the commandment to "love your neighbor as yourself" as James said to do, you must obey the whole law.

    Are you sure you have understood what James was trying to say?
    The Royal command, the King's command. The law of liberty, of freedom. law/freedom what a package is there. Love knows nowt about rules or regulations either.


    ...I think it is called a paradox.

    Leave a comment:


  • Totton Linnet
    replied
    Originally posted by wonderingjew View Post
    I know this may seem like semantics but...I do agree that the "HEBREWS" collectively proved that establishing OUR own righteousness is not only impossible but we are fully expected to let the Messiah uphold the Torah in our hearts since we cannot. Remember Shaul (Paul) said he was a Benjamite, so keep in mind that every Jew is a Hebrew but every Hebrew is not a Jew.

    I completely agree that the standard for us is now very stringent since the Ruach Ha'Kodesh is now writting Torah in our hearts. I was wondering if anyone recalls the Mitzvot that declares every king of Israel MUST write his own copy of the Torah by Hand? Heads up to those who dis-allow the Torah; We, our lives and hearts are the very parchment that Y'Shua is writing His upon. So those who reject Torah are rejecting the writing of the one and only "Lawmaker" Y'Shua.
    I think the very writing of His hand are difficult for us and the scarred hand as it contacts our hearts it can be super overwhelming but all is not lost, He will finish what He started. I was wondering who wants to be found 'lawless' along with the 'lawless one' in these endtimes?
    I don't think you quite got it. The law for US has been nailed to the cross. We live by the power of His life.

    If you will live by the law it will have it's effect on you.

    Thou shalt not lust...immediately you start looking for lust in your members, it was dead, slain by the cross but you by trying to overcome it by obedience to it have brought it back to life....and how.

    Leave a comment:


  • Letsargue
    replied
    Originally posted by wonderingjew View Post
    Despite all the hubbub surrounding sin and its' problems we have to at least agree what sin is don't you agree? The Scripture declares sin to be the transgression of the Torah, so if you don't know it or even vaguely understand your relationship to it how can you be accountable for it either way? I can describe to you in my own way how I see it.
    A bride on the day of her wedding will spend many hours looking into a mirror to primp and make herself most attractive to the groom and all those around. The Torah is like this since it reveals to us what we truly look like to the Groom. If we think we have not sinned we are kidding ourselves and have either despised the mirror or tried to destroy it in some way.
    The "curse" of the law is death, not "The law is cursed". When we break a law we pay the penalty. Just because we have paid the penalty this does not relieve us from obeying it this next time around. We cannot confuse salvation with our "old natures" which are at odds against the Torah and the Spirit and the wonderful sacrifice Messiah made for us by being crucified on the tree. Hence, the curse i/e our punishment for not obeying it is paid in full by the Messiah. This does not however give us the right to dis-own the Torah or teach others we are to no longer obey the instructions of our Father YHVH.
    We do not obey to be saved we obey because that brings the Father honor and respect. Anyhoo... greasy grace is no substitute for obedience and the true Grace given us.

    On a lighter note, since the majority of Christians today whether willingly or unknowingly leave the Torah behind I feel the principles of tithing and the blessing and all the Psalms should be "left behind" where they are buried with the Torah don't you agree? I was just wondering.

    Who told you All that?? Where did you read that??
    The New Testament / Christ's Testimony IS The "ONLY" Place to find the TRUTH / CHRIST / - "The All Mighty GOD"!!! -- Not in the Old Testimony of the Father of CHRIST!!

    (( Isaiah 9:6 KJV )) -- 6- "( For unto US a Child is Born ), ( unto US a SON is Given ): and the Government shall be upon HIS shoulder: and ( His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, ((( "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" ))), The Prince of Peace". --//-----

    Paul, David -- 123114!!

    Leave a comment:


  • patrick jane
    replied
    Originally posted by wonderingjew View Post
    I know this may seem like semantics but...I do agree that the "HEBREWS" collectively proved that establishing OUR own righteousness is not only impossible but we are fully expected to let the Messiah uphold the Torah in our hearts since we cannot. Remember Shaul (Paul) said he was a Benjamite, so keep in mind that every Jew is a Hebrew but every Hebrew is not a Jew.

    I completely agree that the standard for us is now very stringent since the Ruach Ha'Kodesh is now writting Torah in our hearts. I was wondering if anyone recalls the Mitzvot that declares every king of Israel MUST write his own copy of the Torah by Hand? Heads up to those who dis-allow the Torah; We, our lives and hearts are the very parchment that Y'Shua is writing His upon. So those who reject Torah are rejecting the writing of the one and only "Lawmaker" Y'Shua.
    I think the very writing of His hand are difficult for us and the scarred hand as it contacts our hearts it can be super overwhelming but all is not lost, He will finish what He started. I was wondering who wants to be found 'lawless' along with the 'lawless one' in these endtimes?
    i have no knowledge of the "torah". only KJV, NIV type OT and NT Bible, but personally, i think jewish people take themselves too serious. overall, there is a general sense of jews thinking and acting like they are "special" or "chosen". that they are somehow closer to God and the Truth. it gets old. from what i understand, "jewish" people were historically nomadic, even before exodus. i don't know why i feel animosity and tension over Judiasm as the true Faith. Christianity supercedes Judiasm and is superior. basically, i disagree with jews, or anyone for that matter, who does not believe Jesus Is The Messiah, God on earth. it is Written -

    Leave a comment:


  • steko
    replied
    Originally posted by Totton Linnet View Post
    The more you set yourself to obey the law the more you will fail.

    Thou shalt not lust immediately awakens lust in the flesh when we try to live in obedience to that law.

    That is what the law is for. I am FREE both from the law and the sin and the curse attached to it..I receive the blessing attached to obedience to the law through Christ who kept it on my behalf .

    He is my Righteousness.
    Originally posted by Tambora View Post
    Amen!

    You are relying on the righteousness & obedience of ONE, not two.

    And that leaves you and I with no boasting whatsoever.
    Awh-main and Awh-main!

    Leave a comment:

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