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  • Originally posted by Buzzword View Post
    So....nothing but milk, no matter how spiritually mature some of the congregation might be?

    Hebrews 5:13-14
    see http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...&postcount=102
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Buzzword View Post
      So....nothing but milk, no matter how spiritually mature some of the congregation might be?

      Hebrews 5:13-14
      How long does it take to preach the gospel of Christ?
      2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

      Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

      Comment


      • Yeah, I read that already.

        You seem to be operating under the assumption that there are ONLY nonChristians in the pews of churches.

        If all you ever preach is salvation, what do you plan to do for them AFTER THEY ACCEPT IT?

        What about sanctification (depending on your definition of the term)?
        What about learning to live for God on a daily basis?
        What about growing in our relationships with God and each other?

        Preaching only salvation does NOTHING to address these issues, which once one accepts salvation are the next logical steps, and basically sends the message that once you're "in", there's nothing else you ever need to do.

        Plus it WOULD get boring and probably start to alienate anyone who is not a baby Christian.
        “In many ways the evidence of our faith is found in our ability to control our tongue (or our keyboard)."
        -Adam Hamilton

        “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
        -Ralph Waldo Emerson

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jefferson View Post
          Pew sitters who think they are good Christians just because they show up at church regularly. Look at how much free time retired Christians have to actually do something for God. If every single able-bodied retired Christian in the country would show up at an abortion mill for just 1 hour per YEAR, every abortion mill in the country would be jammed with protesters every minute their doors were open. Pew sitters. Oh well, it's their own rewards they are throwing away, not mine.
          Abortion again Jeff? Granted an issue to confront but many Christians fail in any number of other areas: the poor, big business which is about as non-Christian as you can be, and the watered-down Marxist "Christian" schlock as well.
          "My wretchedness pointed Him to the Cross to unite with me; His blessing points me to the Cross where I can be united to Him. As I abide daily in Christ, I shall forever taste the Joy, Power, and Completeness of the Holy Spirit within me."

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Nick M View Post
            That falls inline with the number one problem, the false gospel.
            Thanks Nick for your continued trashing of the Catholic Church. It has been duly noted....again
            "My wretchedness pointed Him to the Cross to unite with me; His blessing points me to the Cross where I can be united to Him. As I abide daily in Christ, I shall forever taste the Joy, Power, and Completeness of the Holy Spirit within me."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Buzzword View Post
              Yeah, I read that already.

              You seem to be operating under the assumption that there are ONLY nonChristians in the pews of churches.

              If all you ever preach is salvation, what do you plan to do for them AFTER THEY ACCEPT IT?

              What about sanctification (depending on your definition of the term)?
              What about learning to live for God on a daily basis?
              What about growing in our relationships with God and each other?

              Preaching only salvation does NOTHING to address these issues, which once one accepts salvation are the next logical steps, and basically sends the message that once you're "in", there's nothing else you ever need to do.

              Plus it WOULD get boring and probably start to alienate anyone who is not a baby Christian.
              Where did I say, "preaching only salvation"? Did Paul preach only salvation in Romans-Philemon?
              Last edited by heir; April 14th, 2011, 04:28 PM. Reason: change word
              2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

              Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tico View Post
                Not enough politics from the pulpit. There are way too many liberal pastors and apologetic conservatives.
                And way too many conservative, misinterpreting fundamentalist pastors that, as well, pervert Christian Truth.
                Throw them all out. Preach/Teach a Christian message, not a political message.
                "My wretchedness pointed Him to the Cross to unite with me; His blessing points me to the Cross where I can be united to Him. As I abide daily in Christ, I shall forever taste the Joy, Power, and Completeness of the Holy Spirit within me."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
                  A robed pastor in a beautiful building with stained glass windows and a steeple on top couldn't possibly be spewing poison to the congregation he loves and weeps over could he?
                  Yes, but not limited to them. subtil
                  2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                  Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by kmoney View Post
                    Why?
                    Hours and hours of yelling, shouting, falling down and praying on tongues rubs me the wrong way. These are the kind of revivals that drag on and on. I would rather have an in depth bible study.

                    June is Gay Pride Month.Tolerance and diversity? ☞ More like tolerate perversity.☠

                    Comment


                    • Churches that advertise "Revival next week." How do they know? It's up to the Holy Spirit if there will be a revival at that church next week and I doubt He gave them advanced notice.
                      WARNING: Graphic video here.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by heir View Post
                        The preaching of the cross to the lost and/or religious, but lost that are sitting there in need of the gospel of Christ and to those who are saved...establishing them, building them up in the faith with the form of sound words of the apostle Paul to the church, which is His Body, the Body of Christ.

                        What do you think sermons should be about?
                        I'm open. But I think I agree what you said about building people up in the faith. But I'd leave off the dispensational element.

                        Originally posted by heir View Post
                        What good is a sermon if they haven't even made known how one is saved? No one should assume that just because people are at a church that they are saved.

                        So then, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17 KJV
                        If you want to preach the gospel on some occasions, fine, but to make it a requirement for every sermon?

                        I don't view church as primarily evangelical. I think church is for believers.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by kmoney View Post
                          I'm open. But I think I agree what you said about building people up in the faith. But I'd leave off the dispensational element.
                          That's really sad. Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11:13 KJV). A dispensation of the gospel was committed unto him (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV), and a dispensation of the grace of God for YOU Gentiles (Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV). God would have you know what is freely given YOU (1 Corinthians 2:12 KJV), but without recognizing that although all the Bible is written for your learning, but not all TO you, are you placing your hope in someone else's gospel, promises, inheritance~a literal, physical kingdom on earth that was not/is not being offered TO you?

                          Those who believe that Jesus Christ died for their sins, was buried and rose again the third day in this age (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV, Ephesians 4:30 KJV) have ALL spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ (Ephesians 1:3 KJV).

                          How do you know what is TO you and what isn't, what applies to you and what doesn't?

                          Follow Paul:

                          1 Corinthians 4:16 KJV Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

                          1 Corinthians 11:1 KJV Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

                          Philippians 3:17 KJV Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

                          2 Timothy 1:13 KJV Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

                          2 Timothy 2:1-3 KJV Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. 3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

                          2 Timothy 2:7 KJV Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

                          By refusing to rightly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV) you are at the very least setting yourself up to be tossed to and fro by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive. It's time to grow up!

                          Ephesians 4:14-15 KJV That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

                          approve the things that are excellent:

                          Philippians 1:10 KJV That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

                          hold fast the faithful word:

                          1 Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

                          1 Timothy 4:16 KJV Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

                          2 Timothy 4:1-4 KJV I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

                          2 Timothy 4:5 KJV But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
                          Titus 1:9 KJV Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

                          Titus 2:1 KJV But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

                          my prayer for you:

                          Ephesians 1:17-19 KJV That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

                          and that you walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called (Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV)

                          If you want to preach the gospel on some occasions, fine, but to make it a requirement for every sermon?
                          Saved people never tire of hearing what the Lord Jesus Christ did in our place. (Romans 4:25 KJV 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV)

                          I don't view church as primarily evangelical. I think church is for believers.
                          yes, but there are so many lost believers. do you assume they are all saved?
                          Last edited by heir; April 19th, 2011, 05:10 AM. Reason: add verses
                          2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                          Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Four O'Clock View Post
                            And way too many conservative, misinterpreting fundamentalist pastors that, as well, pervert Christian Truth.
                            Throw them all out. Preach/Teach a Christian message, not a political message.
                            Like this?

                            Titus 1

                            12 One of them, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,
                            1 Timothy 5

                            7 And these things command, that they may be blameless. 8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

                            2 Thessalonians 3

                            7For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. 10For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

                            1 Timothy 5:20
                            20 Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.
                            Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

                            Titus 1

                            For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

                            Ephesians 5

                            11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by heir View Post
                              That's really sad.
                              I think it's sad that you think it's really sad. I suppose I appreciate the concern.

                              Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11:13 KJV). A dispensation of the gospel was committed unto him (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV), and a dispensation of the grace of God for YOU Gentiles (Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV). God would have you know what is freely given YOU (1 Corinthians 2:12 KJV), but without recognizing that although all the Bible is written for your learning, but not all TO you, are you placing your hope in someone else's gospel, promises, inheritance~a literal, physical kingdom on earth that was not/is not being offered TO you?

                              Those who believe that Jesus Christ died for their sins, was buried and rose again the third day in this age (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV, Ephesians 4:30 KJV) have ALL spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ (Ephesians 1:3 KJV).

                              How do you know what is TO you and what isn't, what applies to you and what doesn't?

                              Follow Paul:

                              1 Corinthians 4:16 KJV Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

                              1 Corinthians 11:1 KJV Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

                              Philippians 3:17 KJV Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

                              2 Timothy 1:13 KJV Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

                              2 Timothy 2:1-3 KJV Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. 3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

                              2 Timothy 2:7 KJV Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

                              By refusing to rightly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV) you are at the very least setting yourself up to be tossed to and fro by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive. It's time to grow up!

                              Ephesians 4:14-15 KJV That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

                              approve the things that are excellent:

                              Philippians 1:10 KJV That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

                              hold fast the faithful word:

                              1 Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

                              1 Timothy 4:16 KJV Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

                              2 Timothy 4:1-4 KJV I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

                              2 Timothy 4:5 KJV But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
                              Titus 1:9 KJV Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

                              Titus 2:1 KJV But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

                              my prayer for you:

                              Ephesians 1:17-19 KJV That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

                              and that you walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called (Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV)
                              Thanks. I've heard all about dispensationalism. I just am not convinced.

                              Saved people never tire of hearing what the Lord Jesus Christ did in our place. (Romans 4:25 KJV 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, 1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV)
                              I didn't try to say that.

                              yes, but there are so many lost believers. do you assume they are all saved?
                              I'm guessing that you have a stricter definition of being "saved" than I do. But regardless, I still don't think the church service is intended to make sure everyone is saved.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by kmoney View Post
                                Thanks. I've heard all about dispensationalism. I just am not convinced.
                                Just what is it that you are not convinced of? It is one thing to be unaware of the truth. No doubt, the so called "church" we see all over the place today comprised of hundreds of denominations has kept the mysteries to which we are stewards (1 Corinthians 4:1-2 KJV), just that...mysteries. But to reject the truth after being shown is quite another.

                                The world was ripe for God's judgment at the stoning of Stephen (the last straw-so to speak), but rather than judgment coming (the wrath to come) God saved the chief of sinners (Acts 9 KJV, 1 Timothy 1:13-16 KJV), His biggest enemy (Galatians 1:13-16 KJV) and through His apostleship/his "office" (Romans 11:13 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:7 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:11-12 KJV) by the unscheduled appearance(s)/revelations from the risen, glorified Lord Jesus Christ to and through him~God began a mystery body, time, gospel and destination.

                                1 Corinthians 4:15-17 KJV For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me. 17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

                                Without the form of sound words in Romans-Philemon (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV) how do you know that you have any hope at all (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV)? How would you know what God has done for you?

                                2 Timothy 2:15 KJV says study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                                "needeth not to be ashamed" implies a judgment somewhere. And it's called the judgment seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV) which is only for those who are saved/ in the Body of Christ.

                                Paul says he is the wise master builder according to the grace of God that was given unto him and that you should take heed how you build thereupon. Your work will be made manifest for the day shall declare it. If it abides the fire you will receive a reward. If not, it will be burned. You shall suffer loss yet still be saved yet so as by fire.

                                1 Corinthians 3:9-15 KJV For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

                                Your loss. That is, if you're saved~ Are you?

                                Paul filled up that which was behind of the afflictions of Christ in his flesh for His body's sake, which is the church:

                                Colossians 1:23-25 KJV If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; 24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: 25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

                                Colossians 1:26-28 KJV Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

                                Paul became a prisoner of Jesus Christ for YOU Gentiles.

                                Acts 22:21-24 KJV And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles. 22 And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live. 23 And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air, 24 The chief captain commanded him to be brought into the castle, and bade that he should be examined by scourging; that he might know wherefore they cried so against him.

                                Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

                                Unto Paul, was this grace given that he should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ:

                                Ephesians 3:7-9 KJV Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

                                Again, what is it you are not convinced of? Standing in the form of sound words of the apostle Paul to the church, the Body of Christ doesn't make one very popular. Is that part of your struggle?

                                Galatians 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

                                2 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
                                I'm guessing that you have a stricter definition of being "saved" than I do. But regardless, I still don't think the church service is intended to make sure everyone is saved.
                                That remains to be seen. Let's find out. How is one saved in this age?
                                Last edited by heir; April 22nd, 2011, 06:37 AM. Reason: added to post and moved a paragraph
                                2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

                                Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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