toldailytopic: USA Government on the verge of shut-down. The President, the Democrats

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Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for April 6th, 2011 11:04 AM


toldailytopic: USA Government on the verge of shut-down. The President, the Democrats, the Republicans... who's at fault?






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Nathon Detroit

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No deal yet as possible government shutdown looms

WASHINGTON – Struggling to avert a government shutdown, Republicans and Democrats each said Wednesday the other would be to blame if compromise talks on the budget fail to produce an agreement.

"Democrats' bottom line hasn't changed. Republicans' bottom line hasn't stayed still," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said, one day after meeting privately with House Speaker John Boehner to try and get talks back on track.

The Nevada Democrat said that Boehner "has a choice to make, and not much time to make it: He can do either what the tea party wants, or what the country needs."

But Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell offered a different analysis.

Democrats "still haven't come up with an alternative to the various Republican proposals we've seen to keep the government up and running in the current fiscal year," the Kentucky Republican said.

"They've just sat on the sidelines taking potshots at everything Republicans have proposed while rooting for a shutdown," he said.'

The government faces a partial shutdown Friday at midnight if Congress doesn't take action to avoid one. Negotiations on legislation to keep federal agencies running is hung up over negotiations over a Republican demand for steep spending cuts.

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Granite

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Both sides are at fault, more or less, but isn't it a misnomer to refer to this as a government "shutdown"? I mean, is Obama gonna play more basketball than usual and is Biden gonna spend all his time cleaning his Trans-Am? Does NORAD just take the day off? What specifically is being "shut down"?
 

some other dude

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Nah, it'll just be another day of hard work for Bammy and Joe.


Golfing%20Obama%20and%20Biden.jpg
 

Kit Fisto

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Both sides are at fault, more or less, but isn't it a misnomer to refer to this as a government "shutdown"? I mean, is Obama gonna play more basketball than usual and is Biden gonna spend all his time cleaning his Trans-Am? Does NORAD just take the day off? What specifically is being "shut down"?

I have to agree with Granite both side are at failt.
 

Cracked

New member
It isn't going to shut down, that is political crapola. However, if it did, could we fire all the bums in Washington and replace them? That would be at least one good thing.
 

WandererInFog

New member
Both sides are at fault, more or less, but isn't is a misnomer to refer to this as a government "shutdown"? I mean, is Obama gonna play more basketball than usual and is Biden gonna spend all his time cleaning his Trans-Am? Does NORAD just take the day off? What specifically is being "shut down"?

Well, assuming it basically mirrors the '96 shutdown, everything except for essential services like Air Traffic Controllers shuts down. All federal museums and parks cease operating, the state department stops issuing passports and visas, the IRS stops issuing refunds, no social security checks are issued, no welfare or Medicaid funds are sent to the states, no educations grants are paid,etc.

As for who is at fault, well, at this point the Republicans are willing to continue to pass resolutions to continue to fund departments like labor and education while negotiations over the budget continue, whereas Obama is now saying he'll refuse to sign anything until a full budget is finalized. While both parties are guilty of playing games with getting a budget finalized, to me that tilts the blame towards him if the retired and disabled stop getting their social security checks and such.
 

Alate_One

Well-known member
This is so the Tea Party it's ridiculous. The Tea Party members are proposing not just deep cuts but ideological riders as well (attacking the new healthcare law, EPA, Public broadcasting, abortion etc. The Tea party have said over and over again "no compromise", so it's pretty obvious who is primarily responsible . . .

cg4d9ac78e91707_custom.jpg


The next budget proposal includes turning Medicare into a voucher system . . . .
 

rocketman

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This is so the Tea Party it's ridiculous. The Tea Party members are proposing not just deep cuts but ideological riders as well (attacking the new healthcare law, EPA, Public broadcasting, abortion etc. The Tea party have said over and over again "no compromise", so it's pretty obvious who is primarily responsible . . .

The next budget proposal includes turning Medicare into a voucher system . . . .

It's Awesome isn't it! Finally the voice of the people is heard...

PBS/NPR-Time for you to support yourself with that Leftist drivvle.
EPA-Who needs em, they protect nothing but their jobs.
Abortion-If you want one you pay for it , don't use my money for murder.
Healthcare-Nothings free, the constituion doesn't guarantee you the right to free healthcare on the backs of others.
Medicare-It wouldn't be suffering as bad if the failed Obamacare wasn't leaching money from it.

Trim the Fat! Live Within Your Means Just like We The People Do!

Shut it Down!:FrankiE:
 

Alate_One

Well-known member
It's Awesome isn't it! Finally the voice of the people is heard...
Sorry bud, that's not the voice of the people. In a poll US citizens were asked what should be done to fill the budget hole . . .

61% said tax the rich, 20 percent said cut defense spending, the rest mentioned cutting other spending. But do the Republican budget bills include either of those options that people want? NO!

Face it. Republicans don't speak for the people, they just lie to the people long enough to get them to vote for Republicans and then do the opposite of what the people actually want. Some of us wised up to this a long time ago.

PBS/NPR-Time for you to support yourself with that Leftist drivvle.
You're one of those that thinks everything that isn't Fox is "leftist". NPR is news for rural communities. But I guess you don't like them either.

EPA-Who needs em, they protect nothing but their jobs.
Really? I guess you want this: then . . .
valleyofdrums.jpg


Abortion-If you want one you pay for it , don't use my money for murder.
Funny, because that's already the case . . . so it really has nothing to do with the budget . . .

Healthcare-Nothings free, the constituion doesn't guarantee you the right to free healthcare on the backs of others.
So you're of the "die on the streets" ideological stripe? What happened to that "compassionate conservatism"? Of course the real problem is those of us that are insured ALREADY pay for people that aren't insured! The show up at the hospital and get treated model we have now is the most expensive model possible. It's a real reason why the deficit is so big. "Obamacare" actually works to help fix that problem.

Medicare-It wouldn't be suffering as bad if the failed Obamacare wasn't leaching money from it.
Except that isn't happening.

Trim the Fat! Live Within Your Means Just like We The People Do!
I'd love that if we actually had people paying what they owe. With GE and other huge corps paying $0 in taxes, the "live within your means" rings pretty hollow. Especially when we gave millionaires huge tax cuts but we can't take care of children or the elderly. Frankly, that isn't just bad policy, it is evil.

Shut it Down!:FrankiE:
And here's the ideology right here. Conservatives WANT government to shut down. Everyone needs to remember this when they turn around and try to blame the Democrats.
 

Tambora

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It's Awesome isn't it! Finally the voice of the people is heard...

PBS/NPR-Time for you to support yourself with that Leftist drivvle.
EPA-Who needs em, they protect nothing but their jobs.
Abortion-If you want one you pay for it , don't use my money for murder.
Healthcare-Nothings free, the constituion doesn't guarantee you the right to free healthcare on the backs of others.
Medicare-It wouldn't be suffering as bad if the failed Obamacare wasn't leaching money from it.

Trim the Fat! Live Within Your Means Just like We The People Do!

Shut it Down!:FrankiE:
I like the way you talk.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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As though a shut down is bad. Newt did it, and the government didn't run deficits for four years.
 

Alate_One

Well-known member
As though a shut down is bad. Newt did it, and the government didn't run deficits for four years.

That had a lot more to do with the Tech bubble than anything Newt did. Taxes on the rich were higher than now during that time too . . . .
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
Sorry bud, that's not the voice of the people. In a poll US citizens were asked what should be done to fill the budget hole . . .

61% said tax the rich, 20 percent said cut defense spending, the rest mentioned cutting other spending. But do the Republican budget bills include either of those options that people want? NO!

Polls, Polls, Polls...I've got a poll for you, try election 2010. Your boys lost big because, they don't understand what the voice of the people is. The majority in America are conservatives and independents not necessarily Republicans. Again, the left fails to understand the message of the Tea Party supporters, they are the voice of the people and they are not interested in the progressive lefts sociallist/communist agenda, its failed fiscal policies, and if your a democrat or republican that aligns with these ideals there is a target on your back in 2012. It's time crush this sociallist/communist movement and sweep it into the ash bin of history.

Face it. Republicans don't speak for the people, they just lie to the people long enough to get them to vote for Republicans and then do the opposite of what the people actually want. Some of us wised up to this a long time ago.

:chuckle: Thats funny, so you are saying the Democrats are not a pack of liars and the Republicans are? from where I'm standing I really can't see much of a difference. Your position is laughable...

You're one of those that thinks everything that isn't Fox is "leftist". NPR is news for rural communities. But I guess you don't like them either.

:darwinsm: Your killin me here Alate, NPR is all the rural folks can pick up? Wow bummer, you mean no satellite T.V. or radio, not even FM... I call Logical Fallacy here...

NPR, PBS, NEA, are organizations that should be promoted and funded by the private sector. If it can't survive without a handout from the taxpayers then it should go the way of the Dodo.

Really? I guess you want this: then . .
Funny, because that's already the case . . . so it really has nothing to do with the budget . . .

We have gone to the extreme here have'nt we...trimming the fat of the EPA, or just about any of the bloated federal bureaucracies is a good thing. The EPA's existence and mission is not in jeopardy here, they will have to learn to do more with less. Kind of like the taxpayers.

So you're of the "die on the streets" ideological stripe? What happened to that "compassionate conservatism"? Of course the real problem is those of us that are insured ALREADY pay for people that aren't insured! The show up at the hospital and get treated model we have now is the most expensive model possible. It's a real reason why the deficit is so big. "Obamacare" actually works to help fix that problem.

Correct! we already pay for it so why pay for a social program the people overwhelmingly did not want, and is financially unsustainable. Whether it is cheaper is debatable, one thing is for sure the people said loudly they did not want it. Is the deficit big because of healthcare, really? No the deficit was caused by many former administrations not living within their means, spending money they did not have. As far as Obamacare being able to fix it, That is highly doubtful at best.

Except that isn't happening.

Good, then Planned Parenthood won't miss the money.

I'd love that if we actually had people paying what they owe. With GE and other huge corps paying $0 in taxes, the "live within your means" rings pretty hollow. Especially when we gave millionaires huge tax cuts but we can't take care of children or the elderly. Frankly, that isn't just bad policy, it is evil.

Was not GE the biggist financial supporter of your golden boy Obama? Maybe they got a "special" tax break. hmm :think:

Why should a millionare pay any more of a percentage of his income than anyone else, that would be fair. What is evil here is govt. spending money it does not have, and continually dipping into the pockets of those who work for it, and giving it to those who do not. Enabling laziness, illeagal aliens, other countries with their hand out is what is evil.


And here's the ideology right here. Conservatives WANT government to shut down. Everyone needs to remember this when they turn around and try to blame the Democrats.

If shutting down the Government is the fire needed to bring the spending under control,so be it. The only ones I feel for in this situation are those in the military who's check may be in jeopardy, hopefully that will bring this to a quick close. The Left should be the last ones to talk about governing by ideology...
 

Alate_One

Well-known member
Polls, Polls, Polls...I've got a poll for you, try election 2010. Your boys lost big because, they don't understand what the voice of the people is.
No, they lost because they were demoralized by a compromising president and consistent lies from the tea party and people didn't come out and vote. When the next presidential comes around I am betting things will be quite different.

The majority in America are conservatives and independents not necessarily Republicans.
The majority of Americans do identify themselves as conservatives but if you ask them on the issues like the poll I linked, they come out quite progressive. This is because for years your lot have painted "conservative" as a good term and "liberal" as evil. But the underlying leanings of people is actually progressive. This makes people confused and has them voting for Republicans that actually do things they don't agree with.

Again, the left fails to understand the message of the Tea Party supporters, they are the voice of the people and they are not interested in the progressive lefts sociallist/communist agenda, its failed fiscal policies, and if your a democrat or republican that aligns with these ideals there is a target on your back in 2012. It's time crush this sociallist/communist movement and sweep it into the ash bin of history.
I predict a pretty big loss for Republicans in 2012. The current policies are a massive overreach.

:chuckle: Thats funny, so you are saying the Democrats are not a pack of liars and the Republicans are? from where I'm standing I really can't see much of a difference. Your position is laughable...
Oh Democrats will lie too, but Republicans are taking the cake these days.

:darwinsm: Your killin me here Alate, NPR is all the rural folks can pick up? Wow bummer, you mean no satellite T.V. or radio, not even FM... I call Logical Fallacy here...
In many areas NPR/PBS stations are all there are because there isn't enough money to sustain a commercial news station. It's likely those stations that will go away if NPR loses its funding.

We have gone to the extreme here have'nt we...trimming the fat of the EPA, or just about any of the bloated federal bureaucracies is a good thing. The EPA's existence and mission is not in jeopardy here, they will have to learn to do more with less. Kind of like the taxpayers.
The cuts proposed to the EPA are massive. The EPA doesn't regulate many things that it should. It doesn't have the budget for research it once did.

Correct! we already pay for it so why pay for a social program the people overwhelmingly did not want,
But they DO want it :rotfl: Poll after poll shows that.

and is financially unsustainable. Whether it is cheaper is debatable, one thing is for sure the people said loudly they did not want it. Is the deficit big because of healthcare, really?
Look at the federal budget, much of it is entitlement spending, specifically medicaid and medicare. Guess what those are based on . . .medical costs.

So are you for letting people that can't pay die in the streets or not? You'll have to pass a law to allow it, are you for such a law?


Was not GE the biggist financial supporter of your golden boy Obama? Maybe they got a "special" tax break. hmm :think:
No, our tax code is full of holes. They aren't the only ones getting away with a zero tax. And no Obama isn't my "golden boy". I'm stuck with him because the other side is reactionary.

Why should a millionare pay any more of a percentage of his income than anyone else, that would be fair.
Because we have a gap to fill in our budget and their contribution is necessary. If you ask many rich folks a lot of them actually WANT to pay increased taxes.

What is evil here is govt. spending money it does not have, and continually dipping into the pockets of those who work for it, and giving it to those who do not. Enabling laziness, illeagal aliens, other countries with their hand out is what is evil.
Sigh, so sad you're just repeating Faux news talking points without even thinking. So many of the rich DON'T work for a living. Take the Koch brothers, they inherited all of their wealth or the Walton clan. The rich get richer and the rest of us stay the same or get poorer. It's a recipe for social upheaval. Even though you don't believe in socialism, unregulated capitalism is just as bad as Communism and results in a reaction to the other side.

If shutting down the Government is the fire needed to bring the spending under control,so be it. The only ones I feel for in this situation are those in the military who's check may be in jeopardy, hopefully that will bring this to a quick close. The Left should be the last ones to talk about governing by ideology...
Republicans are the ones putting highly contentious issues into budget battles and trying to use tight budgets as an excuse to implement reactionary proposals.
 

rocketman

Resident Rocket Surgeon
Hall of Fame
No, they lost because they were demoralized by a compromising president and consistent lies from the tea party and people didn't come out and vote. When the next presidential comes around I am betting things will be quite different.

I'll take that bet, and raise you the senate...

The majority of Americans do identify themselves as conservatives but if you ask them on the issues like the poll I linked, they come out quite progressive. This is because for years your lot have painted "conservative" as a good term and "liberal" as evil. But the underlying leanings of people is actually progressive. This makes people confused and has them voting for Republicans that actually do things they don't agree with.

Progressive hardly, Adolph Hitler called himself a progressive by the way. Alate, I see your an educated man, I'm amazed you don't realize the poll is only as good as the pollster, or that the data is only as good as the person taking it. People are not confused they know full well the government is out of control and have finally woke from their slumber to get involved and take it back, much to the Left"s dismay.

I predict a pretty big loss for Republicans in 2012. The current policies are a massive overreach.

Again, I'll take that bet.

Oh Democrats will lie too,

That's a given...

but Republicans are taking the cake these days.

What lies do you refer to? I am quite happy with their current slash job to federal spending. I wish they went further.

In many areas NPR/PBS stations are all there are because there isn't enough money to sustain a commercial news station. It's likely those stations that will go away if NPR loses its funding.

:darwinsm:Stop please my sides...
Alate, you really are killin me with this one, in 1980 maybe but, this is 2011 everyone in the Continental U.S. has access to a plethera of media options. The only loser of NPR's funding is NPR, I say good riddance. They did it to themselves...

The cuts proposed to the EPA are massive. The EPA doesn't regulate many things that it should. It doesn't have the budget for research it once did.

Ah, now we are getting to your point, you are a Asst. Professer of biology correct, maybe the loss of research funds will affect you directly? :think:

But they DO want it :rotfl: Poll after poll shows that.

I don't know what polls your looking at but, the one's I've seen show a different conclusion. Why have so many States thrown it out as unconstitutional and if Obamacare gets overturned in the Supreme Court (highly likely) do you think we will have rioting in the streets? Probably not, more like dancing in the streets...

Look at the federal budget, much of it is entitlement spending, specifically medicaid and medicare. Guess what those are based on . . .medical costs.

Are you trying to convince me or others that a government run healthcare option is cheaper? Name one government program that runs more cheaply or efficiently than any similar service in the private sector. There is none, because the government can't run anything cheap or efficient.

So are you for letting people that can't pay die in the streets or not? You'll have to pass a law to allow it, are you for such a law?

You do love the extremes don't you...Sigh
when has anyone died in the streets of America for the want of medical attention?


No, our tax code is full of holes. They aren't the only ones getting away with a zero tax. And no Obama isn't my "golden boy". I'm stuck with him because the other side is reactionary.

Fair enough.

Because we have a gap to fill in our budget and their contribution is necessary.
Wrong, government needs to cease offering services it can no longer afford. The answer is less spending, not more revenue. Again, your educated, show me in the history of our country where raising taxes has resulted in a robust economy. Clue: never

If you ask many rich folks a lot of them actually WANT to pay increased taxes.

:chuckle: I'm sure rich folks are forming a line at the IRS now to write those checks...

Sigh, so sad you're just repeating Faux news talking points without even thinking. So many of the rich DON'T work for a living. Take the Koch brothers, they inherited all of their wealth or the Walton clan. The rich get richer and the rest of us stay the same or get poorer. It's a recipe for social upheaval. Even though you don't believe in socialism, unregulated capitalism is just as bad as Communism and results in a reaction to the other side.

Sounds like sour grapes to me, if you want to make more money the opportunity is there for you, don't whine because others apply themselves. Your a professor, write a book, or invent something that people want and you too can be rich if that is your desire but, be advised when you do get that money that you sweated so hard for the government will want their share to distribute to those who don't want to apply themselves.

Republicans are the ones putting highly contentious issues into budget battles and trying to use tight budgets as an excuse to implement reactionary proposals.

Works for me. :thumb:
 
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