ECT Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[JudgeRightly]

Explain these scriptures that tell us to repent AFTER being saved.

What is there to explain?

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Revelation 2:5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

Did you notice that Jesus is speaking to churches telling them how they're doing spiritually?

By the way, there's nothing wrong with repenting (turning away) from sin, especially after one is saved.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again, my God may humiliate me before you, and I will grieve for many of those who previously sinned and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced.

Paul is speaking to members of the church at Corinth, who are already believers.

Again, nothing wrong with repenting (turning away) from sin, after one is saved.

So what's your point?

Even Jesus' enemies knew he was going to rise again; it is why they guarded his tomb.

Uh, no. No idea where you got that idea. Scripture is clear.

They guarded the tomb with men so that Jesus' followers couldn't steal His body and claim that He had risen.

On the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate,saying, “Sir, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, [JESUS]‘After three days I will rise.’[/JESUS]Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead.’ So the last deception will be worse than the first.”Pilate said to them, “You have a guard; go your way, make it as secure as you know how.”So they went and made the tomb secure, sealing the stone and setting the guard. - Matthew 27:62-66 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew27:62-66&version=NKJV

Mark 9:31 because he was teaching his disciples. He said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise."

Matthew 16:21
From that time on Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and that He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

Matthew 27:63
"Sir," they said, "we remember that while He was alive that deceiver said 'After three days I will rise again.'

Typical that you would ignore the verses before and after this one.

Mark 10:34
who will mock Him and spit on Him and flog Him and kill Him. And after three days He will rise again."

Mark 8:31
Then He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and that He must be killed and after three days rise again.

:mock: GT

Well, at Pentecost, all the Jews from every nation came.

So?

It was easy to spread the gospel to many different nations that way.

That was God's original plan.

But that never happened.

In Acts 2:5 we see that there were JEWS from EVERY NATION. The Jews are the people God said that He would speak to through men of strange tongues...

Show us where that happened, that the Jews went out and preached the gospel.

Acts 2:5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.

Acts 2:6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.

Just look at the list of places the Jews had come from...

Acts 2:8-Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"

Good for them.

Peter taught to these Jews who became Christians.

The word "Christian" isn't even used until AFTER PAUL. That should give you a huge hint.

Same gospel but two different people preaching it.

Please show how "uncircumcision" is the same as "circumcision."

Paul preached to the circumcised too, in the beginning;

And he quickly stopped, because they kept rejecting his message.

and, he preached the exact same gospel whether or not they were circumcised.

And yet, his message was completely different to the message Peter and the others preached.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 20:21
I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Now jump to Galatians and read chapter 2 verses 7-9.

Right; there is only one gospel,

No, there's multiple.

and, Paul saying for those preaching different gospels should be eternally condemned

And they should be. Yet Paul is not one of them. Yes, he is preaching a different gospel.

would be strange if he taught another one. It would make him sound like an insane hypocrite.

Does it sound right if Paul means this: "I am preaching a different gospel than the one Jesus and Peter preach, but, if I preach another one other than my other one, then I should be eternally condemned".

Not surprising that this is your argument, since you have no idea what he's actually talking about when he talks about "a different gospel that is not another."

 

[God's Truth]

What is there to explain?

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Revelation 2:5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
Did you notice that Jesus is speaking to churches telling them how they're doing spiritually?

By the way, there's nothing wrong with repenting (turning away) from sin, especially after one is saved.

I thought someone here was going against that fact.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again, my God may humiliate me before you, and I will grieve for many of those who previously sinned and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced.
Paul is speaking to members of the church at Corinth, who are already believers.

Again, nothing wrong with repenting (turning away) from sin, after one is saved.

So what's your point?

I am glad you agree; however, there are many people who believe after being saved if they sin they don’t have to repent.

Uh, no. No idea where you got that idea. Scripture is clear.

Even Jesus' enemies knew he was going to rise again; it is why they guarded his tomb.

They guarded the tomb with men so that Jesus' followers couldn't steal His body and claim that He had risen.

Because Jesus preached that he would rise, the enemies thought that the disciples would steal him and say see he rose again---that does NOT mean Jesus didn’t preach that he would rise, it means he did in fact preach it. That is what you are going against, for you said Jesus didn’t preach of his resurrection.
Jesus even says that he is the resurrection and the life.

John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;


Wow. Did you read that? That is preaching the resurrection. You said it couldn't be found.

On the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate,saying, “Sir, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise.’Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead.’ So the last deception will be worse than the first.”Pilate said to them, “You have a guard; go your way, make it as secure as you know how.”So they went and made the tomb secure, sealing the stone and setting the guard. - Matthew 27:62-66http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...6&version=NKJV

GT

What is so funny? You are the one who asked about the preaching of the resurrection, and I gave it to you.
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
But that never happened.

Preaching to the nations happened at Pentecost and probably the following Pentecost’s.

The word "Christian" isn't even used until AFTER PAUL. That should give you a huge hint.

It doesn’t matter, for Paul never calls anyone a Christian, so you miss the point; Paul says they belong to a sect called The Way.

Please show how "uncircumcision" is the same as "circumcision."

I didn’t say it was the same. I said the gospel was the same.

And he quickly stopped, because they kept rejecting his message.

They rejected his message because they thought he was trying to trick them into saying they believe in Jesus so that he could put them in prison.

And yet, his message was completely different to the message Peter and the others preached.

No way did Jesus give two different messages for his apostles to preach. A kingdom against itself cannot stand.

Mark 3:24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

Now jump to Galatians and read chapter 2 verses 7-9.

Same gospel taught to the circumcised and the uncircumcised.

And they should be. Yet Paul is not one of them. Yes, he is preaching a different gospel.

Paul can’t give another gospel, only God can, and He came to earth to do that.

Not surprising that this is your argument, since you have no idea what he's actually talking about when he talks about "a different gospel that is not another."

Jesus made a covenant of his blood, all must come to him through his blood, and Paul was a minster of that covenant.

Paul is not able to give another gospel than the one Jesus established.

2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I thought someone here was going against that fact.

I am glad you agree; however, there are many people who believe after being saved if they sin they don’t have to repent.

Constantly turning to God is never a bad thing.

Even Jesus' enemies knew he was going to rise again; it is why they guarded his tomb.

Because Jesus preached that he would rise, the enemies thought that the disciples would steal him and say see he rose again---that does NOT mean Jesus didn’t preach that he would rise, it means he did in fact preach it. That is what you are going against, for you said Jesus didn’t preach of his resurrection.
Jesus even says that he is the resurrection and the life.

John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

Did you not even bother to read the scripture I quoted?

It explicitly stated why there were guards posted outside Jesus' tomb.

Here it is again:

On the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate,saying, “Sir, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, [JESUS]‘After three days I will rise.’[/JESUS]Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead.’ So the last deception will be worse than the first.”Pilate said to them, “You have a guard; go your way, make it as secure as you know how.”So they went and made the tomb secure, sealing the stone and setting the guard. - Matthew 27:62-66 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew27:62-66&version=NKJV

Wow. Did you read that? That is preaching the resurrection. You said it couldn't be found.

Now show us where the Disciples preached the resurrection prior to it.

What is so funny? You are the one who asked about the preaching of the resurrection, and I gave it to you.

I asked you to show where the DISCIPLES preached the resurrection prior to it.

You have not shown that at all.

[JESUS]Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
But that never happened.

Preaching to the nations happened at Pentecost and probably the following Pentecost’s.

It doesn’t matter, for Paul never calls anyone a Christian, so you miss the point; Paul says they belong to a sect called The Way.

I didn’t say it was the same.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, you did, by saying that circumcision and uncircumcision are the same.

I said the gospel was the same.

"Gospel of the Circumcision" is not the same as "Gospel of the Uncircumcision" because "Circumcision" and "Uncircumcision" are opposites.

They rejected his message because they thought he was trying to trick them into saying they believe in Jesus so that he could put them in prison.

No way did Jesus give two different messages for his apostles to preach.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Cannot the God of universe tell two different things to different people at different times?

A kingdom against itself cannot stand.

Mark 3:24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

Paul does not preach a kingdom. He preaches an organism. The twelve are the ones who preach a kingdom, hence why it's called the "gospel of the Kingdom."

Same gospel taught to the circumcised and the uncircumcised.

You can't both teach circumcision AND uncircumcision in the same gospel. It will ALWAYS be one of the other.

That's why its' two different gospels.

Paul can’t give another gospel, only God can, and He came to earth to do that.

God gave Paul another gospel to preach. Why do you refuse to acknowledge this fact?

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles—if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already,by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. - Ephesians 3:1-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians3:1-7&version=NKJV

Jesus made a covenant of his blood, all must come to him through his blood, and Paul was a minster of that covenant.

Paul is not able to give another gospel than the one Jesus established.

See above.

2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Good verse, but it supports my position, not yours. Sorry.

 

[God's Truth]

Constantly turning to God is never a bad thing.

Glad to hear it.

Did you not even bother to read the scripture I quoted?

It explicitly stated why there were guards posted outside Jesus' tomb.

Here it is again:

On the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate,saying, “Sir, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise.’Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead.’ So the last deception will be worse than the first.”Pilate said to them, “You have a guard; go your way, make it as secure as you know how.”So they went and made the tomb secure, sealing the stone and setting the guard. - Matthew 27:62-66http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...6&version=NKJV

Now show us where the Disciples preached the resurrection prior to it.

I already gave you the scriptures. Jesus preached he would rise again; it is why the tomb was guarded.

Jesus said he is the resurrection.

I asked you to show where the DISCIPLES preached the resurrection prior to it.

You have not shown that at all.

[JESUS]Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
But that never happened.

That is what Jesus said when he walked the earth.

"Gospel of the Circumcision" is not the same as "Gospel of the Uncircumcision" because "Circumcision" and "Uncircumcision" are opposites.

There is only one gospel. Jesus is the good news.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

That’s right.

Cannot the God of universe tell two different things to different people at different times?

Jesus is the Way not ways.

Paul does not preach a kingdom. He preaches an organism. The twelve are the ones who preach a kingdom, hence why it's called the "gospel of the Kingdom."

Paul does speak of the kingdom


Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 28:31
Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost
1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1 Thessalonians 2:12
That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
2 Timothy 4:1
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

You can't both teach circumcision AND uncircumcision in the same gospel. It will ALWAYS be one of the other.

Circumcision is nothing in the new covenant and Peter knew it.

God gave Paul another gospel to preach. Why do you refuse to acknowledge this fact?

Jesus wouldn’t give a gospel to Paul to go against what he taught.

Paul taught repent and have faith---that is exactly what Jesus taught.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Glad to hear it.

I already gave you the scriptures. Jesus preached he would rise again; it is why the tomb was guarded.

They guarded the tomb because they thought that Jesus' followers would steal his body.

I mean, come on, it's literally RIGHT THERE IN THE TEXT!

Jesus said he is the resurrection.

Now show where the DISCIPLES taught his resurrection.

You still have not.

That is what Jesus said when he walked the earth.

There is only one gospel.

There are many.

Jesus is the good news.

Platitudes mean nothing with me.

That’s right.

Jesus is the Way not ways.

Paul does speak of the kingdom

Wrong kingdom.

Peter and the other Eleven spoke of Christ's Kingdom on earth.

Paul spoke of both that kingdom AND of the Kingdom of Heaven, which will include Christ's earthly kindgom.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 28:31
Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost
1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
1 Corinthians 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Galatians 5:21
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1 Thessalonians 2:12
That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
2 Timothy 4:1
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Circumcision is nothing in the new covenant and Peter knew it.

"Circumcision is nothing?"

GT, do you not even know what circumcision is?

It's certainly not "nothing" :mock:

Jesus wouldn’t give one gospel to Paul to go against what he taught.

Then you have to reject what Paul taught, because Paul taught something other than what Christ taught the Twelve.

Paul taught repent and have faith---that is exactly what Jesus taught.

No, Paul taught "confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead."

Paul did not teach "repent and have faith." That was the Twelve.

 

[God's Truth]

They guarded the tomb because they thought that Jesus' followers would steal his body.

I mean, come on, it's literally RIGHT THERE IN THE TEXT!

The texts say plainly that his enemies said Jesus said he would rise.

Now show where the DISCIPLES taught his resurrection.

You still have not.

Jesus taught it and the people were taught by Jesus and the disciples. There is only one new and everlasting covenant.

Wrong kingdom.
Peter and the other Eleven spoke of Christ's Kingdom on earth.

There is one kingdom and Jesus will hand it over to the Father.
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

"Circumcision is nothing?"

GT, do you not even know what circumcision is?

It's certainly not "nothing"

Well, it’s what Paul says.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

Then you have to reject what Paul taught, because Paul taught something other than what Christ taught the Twelve.
No, Paul taught "confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead."

John the baptizer

Luke 3:8
Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance.

Paul

Acts 26:20
First to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, then to everyone in the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I declared that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds worthy of their repentance.

Paul did not teach "repent and have faith." That was the Twelve.

This is Paul---

Acts 26:20 No, Paul taught "confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead."

Acts 20:21
testifying to Jews and Greeks alike about repentance to God and faith in our Lord Jesus.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The texts say plainly that his enemies said Jesus said he would rise.

Yes, I know that, but you're purposefully ognoring the rest of the passage.

You're cherry picking.

The entire passage says that, and then it says this:

Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead.’ So the last deception will be worse than the first.”Pilate said to them, “You have a guard; go your way, make it as secure as you know how.”So they went and made the tomb secure, sealing the stone and setting the guard. - Matthew 27:64-66 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew27:64-66&version=NKJV

It was only after they suggested that Jesus' followers might come to steal Jesus' body that Pilate posted soldiers.

Stop cherry picking verses and read the context!

Jesus taught it and the people were taught by Jesus and the disciples.

Then it should be easy to show the scripture where the disciples preached Christ's resurrection before He was crucified.

Or what, are you too afraid if you try to look you won't find any? :mock:

There is only one new and everlasting covenant.

Then why call it the "New" covenant?

If there's only one, then it would be the old.

You sure are inconsistent in your beliefs.

There is one kingdom and Jesus will hand it over to the Father.
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

That verse doesn't say there's only one kingdom. Care to try again?

Well, it’s what Paul says.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

IF YOU READ THE CONTEXT, you would understand that he is talking about two different groups of people who had two different messages taught to them.

But as God has distributed to each one, as the Lord has called each one, so let him walk. And so I ordain in all the churches.Was anyone called while circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised. Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised.Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called.Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it.For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord’s freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ’s slave.You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called. - 1 Corinthians 7:17-24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians7:17-24&version=NKJV

John the baptizer

Luke 3:8
Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance.

Paul

Acts 26:20
First to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, then to everyone in the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I declared that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds worthy of their repentance.

This is Paul---

Acts 26:20 No, Paul taught "confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead."

That's not what that verse says......... :think:

Acts 20:21
testifying to Jews and Greeks alike about repentance to God and faith in our Lord Jesus.

Ok, and?

 

[marhig]

At the moment you were born-again …
you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

“For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
“OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

“having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
“FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

“forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
“PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

Now for some confirming NT passages …

Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke
in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.

“… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways. It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.”
(2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)

“Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence. And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins. You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality, and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)

Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
“Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent. … what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time … Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …” (2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)

John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
“But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)
“This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them …
We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance …
we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.”
(The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale)

2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
“My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin.
But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father.
He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.” (1 John 2:1, NLT)

Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again!
They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word.
So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world, and the devil.
They have no excuse for failing to do this.

Yes that's the truth, we are to turn from sin once we know God. And the Holy Spirit should be helping us to do so. We are not to carry on wilfully sinning, OSAS is a false gospel and those who carry on wilfully sinning are workers iniquity. Those who truly follow Christ are those who live by the will of the father, and the will of the father isn't to sin. If we live by the will of God, and we walk in the Spirit then we will be turning from sin. In fact our conscience should be so strong we will find it very very hard to wilfully sin. That's if our hearts are right before the living God.

Matthew 7

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And there's this,

Romans 3

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission OF SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, I know that, but you're purposefully ognoring the rest of the passage.

You're cherry picking.

The entire passage says that, and then it says this:

Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead.’ So the last deception will be worse than the first.”Pilate said to them, “You have a guard; go your way, make it as secure as you know how.”So they went and made the tomb secure, sealing the stone and setting the guard. - Matthew 27:64-66 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...6&version=NKJV

It was only after they suggested that Jesus' followers might come to steal Jesus' body that Pilate posted soldiers.

Stop cherry picking verses and read the context!

I have no idea why you don’t get it that Jesus preached he would rise after three days.

Then it should be easy to show the scripture where the disciples preached Christ's resurrection before He was crucified.

Or what, are you too afraid if you try to look you won't find any?

Jesus taught it and it means it was taught. I have given you many scriptures.
Jesus and his disciples taught the kingdom of heaven and how to enter; not sure how you think you are on to proving anything against one gospel.

Then why call it the "New" covenant?

If there's only one, then it would be the old.

You sure are inconsistent in your beliefs.

The old covenant is the one God gave Moses.

That verse doesn't say there's only one kingdom. Care to try again?

There is one kingdom and Jesus will hand it back to the Father in the end.

IF YOU READ THE CONTEXT, you would understand that he is talking about two different groups of people who had two different messages taught to them.

But as God has distributed to each one, as the Lord has called each one, so let him walk. And so I ordain in all the churches.Was anyone called while circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised. Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised.Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called.Were you called while a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use it.For he who is called in the Lord while a slave is the Lord’s freedman. Likewise he who is called while free is Christ’s slave.You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men.Brethren, let each one remain with God in that state in which he was called. - 1 Corinthians 7:17-24http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV

Two different people and the same gospel; Paul even taught that same one gospel to the circumcised; wouldn’t that be a confusing mess to have Paul preaching a different gospel than the one Peter was preaching to the Jews.

That's not what that verse says.........

So are you going to deny what Paul says he taught?

Acts 26:20
First to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, then to everyone in the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I declared that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds worthy of their repentance.

Ok, and?

I prove that Paul taught the same thing as John the baptizer and Jesus himself---repent and have faith.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I have no idea why you don’t get it that Jesus preached he would rise after three days.

Where have I denied such?

I'm saying that your belief is INCOMPLETE, not in error.

Jesus taught it and it means it was taught.

That's not what I asked for, GT.

I asked for Scripture that has the DISCIPLES, not Jesus, teaching Christ's resurrection, BEFORE His crucifixion.

Yet you continue to squirm and writhe, trying to avoid the issue.

You cannot post scripture that has the DISCIPLES teaching about the resurrection of Christ BEFORE He was crucified BECAUSE THEY NEVER DID.

I have given you many scriptures.
Jesus

Not in question.

and his disciples taught the kingdom of heaven and how to enter;

Again, NOT what I'm asking for.

I'm asking for where the DISCIPLES taught about Christ's future RESURRECTION prior to HIS CRUCIFIXION.

not sure how you think you are on to proving anything against one gospel.

And that's because you're either not understanding what I'm asking (which is not likely, because it's not like I can be any more clear), or your deliberately ignoring it and changing the subject.

The old covenant is the one God gave Moses.

*facepalm*

You're the one who said "only covenant," dummy.

There is one kingdom and Jesus will hand it back to the Father in the end.

The Kingdom of Heaven is not Christ's earthly kingdom.

Two different people and the same gospel;

Then show us how "gospel of the uncircumcision" is the same as "gospel of the circumcision".

They cannot be the same thing.

Paul even taught that same one gospel to the circumcised;

Paul taught the gospel of the Grace of God to the Jews, which was his own gospel given to him by Christ.

Which is why everything Paul taught in Acts 9 onwards matches what he taught in his own epistles.

But Paul NEVER taught the gospel of the Kingdom (Christ's earthly Kingdom) to either Jew or Gentile.

wouldn’t that be a confusing mess to have Paul preaching a different gospel than the one Peter was preaching to the Jews.

The only confusion is in your mind, GT, because you try to make all scripture say the same thing, instead of just reading it all AS IS.

GT, Go read Galatians 2:7-9, then go back and read Acts. If it still doesn't make sense, do it again.

So are you going to deny what Paul says he taught?

Acts 26:20
First to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, then to everyone in the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I declared that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds worthy of their repentance.

Nope.

Why should I?

Paul taught what he taught, which was different and even contradictory to what the Twelve taught.

I prove that Paul taught the same thing as John the baptizer and Jesus himself---repent and have faith.

Saying it doesn't it so, GT.

How is the "gospel of the uncircumcision" the same as the "gospel of the circumcision"?

Circumcision and uncircumcision are OPPOSITES, therefore the gospels of each inherently cannot be the same as the other.

 

[God's Truth]

Where have I denied such?

I'm saying that your belief is INCOMPLETE, not in error.

That is interesting. I guess it is better than being told I am in error. My beliefs are complete, but I would like to discuss what you think and why.

That's not what I asked for, GT.

I asked for Scripture that has the DISCIPLES, not Jesus, teaching Christ's resurrection, BEFORE His crucifixion.

Yet you continue to squirm and writhe, trying to avoid the issue.

You cannot post scripture that has the DISCIPLES teaching about the resurrection of Christ BEFORE He was crucified BECAUSE THEY NEVER DID.

Not every single thing was recorded. What is recorded is what Jesus taught and how he sent his disciples to teach.
I think it is strange and unnatural how you like to make others writhe concerning this. Do you have scriptures where the disciples said ‘believe in Jesus he is God’?
Come on, give the scripture where any apostle said that before the cross, come on, come on do it, show it. If I am writhing it is because what you say is irritating to the topic.

Again, NOT what I'm asking for.

I'm asking for where the DISCIPLES taught about Christ's future RESURRECTION prior to HIS CRUCIFIXION.

This scripture says Jesus taught his disciples that he would rise.

Mark 9:31 because he was teaching his disciples. He said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise."

And that's because you're either not understanding what I'm asking (which is not likely, because it's not like I can be any more clear), or your deliberately ignoring it and changing the subject.

You have not proven Paul taught a different gospel than what God came to earth to teach.

The Kingdom of Heaven is not Christ's earthly kingdom.

From the scriptures we can see the earthly throne of Israel was actually God's throne.

We can see from the scriptures that the Jews wanted a man to sit on that throne.

That does not negate the truth being that THAT THRONE David end up having was God's throne, but on earth because that is what the Jews wanted. They rejected God and chose an earthly king.

Jesus is the righteous one who is NOW SITTING on that throne.

When Jesus comes again, he it will be at the resurrection of the dead.

That is the last judgment and when all enemies are put under him.

THEN the NEW JERUSALEM will come down on the NEW EARTH---and Jesus HANDS OVER THE KINGDOM to the Father.

Jesus is Ruler of everything, not just over an earthly Israel.

Then show us how "gospel of the uncircumcision" is the same as "gospel of the circumcision".

Go ahead and explain what the gospel of the circumcsion is.

They cannot be the same thing.

They are the same.

Paul taught the gospel of the Grace of God to the Jews, which was his own gospel given to him by Christ.

Which is why everything Paul taught in Acts 9 onwards matches what he taught in his own epistles.

But Paul NEVER taught the gospel of the Kingdom (Christ's earthly Kingdom) to either Jew or Gentile.

That is too confusing. Could you explain that better?

The only confusion is in your mind, GT, because you try to make all scripture say the same thing, instead of just reading it all AS IS.

You got me wrong.

GT, Go read Galatians 2:7-9, then go back and read Acts. If it still doesn't make sense, do it again.

The Bible makes sense to me. It makes no sense to think that God came to earth to show us the way and then gave a different teaching through Paul.

Nope.

Why should I?

Paul taught what he taught, which was different and even contradictory to what the Twelve taught.

No, it is the same. Paul taught to repent and have faith.

Acts 26:20
First to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, then to everyone in the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I declared that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds worthy of their repentance.

Saying it doesn't it so, GT.

You should take your own advice.

How is the "gospel of the uncircumcision" the same as the "gospel of the circumcision"?

Circumcision and uncircumcision are OPPOSITES, therefore the gospels of each inherently cannot be the same as the other.

The Jews are the circumcised and need to hear the same gospel too, and it was to Peter to preach it.

 

[ZacharyB]

GT ... there are several people here who are ...
“always learning and NEVER able to come to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Timothy 3:7, NKJV)
Thus, and so, it's a waste of time to deal with them.
IMO, we should try to help those whom we see
are OPEN to the truth.

 

[JudgeRightly]

That is interesting. I guess it is better than being told I am in error. My beliefs are complete, but I would like to discuss what you think and why.

What do you think I've been DOING!?

Not every single thing was recorded.

This is called an argument from silence.

What is recorded is what Jesus taught and how he sent his disciples to teach.

Which has no bearing on what I asked.

I asked you to provide where Jesus' disciples taught Christ's resurrection prior to his crucifixion.

You could argue that they could have done so and it was never recorded, but it's not likely, considering their response to His stating CLEARLY that he would be crucified, along with their responses to His death.

You CANNOT ARGUE with any authority, however, that they did teach His resurrection prior to His crucifixion, which is what you have been doing, because there IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THEY DID SUCH.

Therefore, your argument falls apart when you try to assert that they taught the same thing Paul did, because Paul taught the resurrection of Christ, the Twelve (at least as far as it was recorded) never did.

I think it is strange and unnatural how you like to make others writhe concerning this. Do you have scriptures where the disciples said ‘believe in Jesus he is God’?

You clearly don't know what my position is if you think I should do that.

Come on, give the scripture where any apostle said that before the cross, come on, come on do it, show it.

:AMR:

If I am writhing it is because what you say is irritating to the topic.

Why is it irritating? Do you have a beam in your eye? :mock:

This scripture says Jesus taught his disciples that he would rise.

Which, again, has little to nothing to do with what I asked.

Mark 9:31 because he was teaching his disciples. He said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise."

Good scripture, but it doesn't answer my question.

You have not proven Paul taught a different gospel than what God came to earth to teach.

I don't have to. You keep doing it for my by not providing scripture that shows where the Disciples taught Christ's resurrection prior to his crucifixion.

That is one huge piece of evidence that Paul taught something other than what the Twelve taught.

From the scriptures we can see the earthly throne of Israel was actually God's throne.

Uh, no. It was TO BE JESUS' throne on EARTH.

God, who is spirit, doesn't need a throne.

We can see from the scriptures that the Jews wanted a man to sit on that throne.

And Jesus became a man.

That does not negate the truth being that THAT THRONE David end up having was God's throne, but on earth because that is what the Jews wanted. They rejected God and chose an earthly king.

:blabla:

This has nothing to do with what we were talking about.

Jesus is the righteous one who is NOW SITTING on that throne.

When Jesus comes again, he it will be at the resurrection of the dead.

That is the last judgment and when all enemies are put under him.

THEN the NEW JERUSALEM will come down on the NEW EARTH---and Jesus HANDS OVER THE KINGDOM to the Father.

Uh, no, that's when Jesus will rule with a ROD OF IRON.

Jesus is Ruler of everything, not just over an earthly Israel.

Duh. How is that relevant to the topic?

Go ahead and explain what the gospel of the circumcsion is.

They are the same.

Then you assert that "circumcision" and "uncircumcision" are the same.

That is too confusing.

It's only confusing to you, GT.

God is not the author of confusion.

Could you explain that better?

Sure, I could, but what good would it do you when you clearly think that you have it right and won't even consider that you're wrong?

You got me wrong.

The Bible makes sense to me. It makes no sense to think that God came to earth to show us the way and then gave a different teaching through Paul.

So you don't know what a plot twist is?

No, it is the same. Paul taught to repent and have faith.

Paul taught Romans 10:9-10, to have faith in who Jesus is (Lord Jesus Christ), and what He did (raised Himself from the dead).

Repentance came later.

Acts 26:20
First to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, then to everyone in the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I declared that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds worthy of their repentance.

"Repent" means "to turn away".

To "repent and turn to God" means to turn away and turn to God.

It says nothing about sin.

You should take your own advice.

The Jews are the circumcised

And they received the gospel of the circumcision from the Twelve.

and need to hear the same gospel too, and it was to Peter to preach it.

"It" being "the gospel of the circumcision.

Paul taught the gospel of the uncircumcision to the Gentiles, the uncircumcised.

 

[JudgeRightly]

GT ... there are several people here who are ...
“always learning and NEVER able to come to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Timothy 3:7, NKJV)
Thus, and so, it's a waste of time to deal with them.
IMO, we should try to help those whom we see
are OPEN to the truth.

If you're not interested in discussing what the Bible actually says, you should just leave TOL.

 

[God's Truth]

GT ... there are several people here who are ...
“always learning and NEVER able to come to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Timothy 3:7, NKJV)
Thus, and so, it's a waste of time to deal with them.
IMO, we should try to help those whom we see
are OPEN to the truth.

I have thought of this often, but where would that be?
It never ever seems like a waste of time though to me to post, because I love talking about God, and even if there isn't anyone here telling me they are enjoying my posts and learning something, I myself learn a lot while I try to prove my beliefs with scripture.

It would be great though to hear someone say thanks for giving me more understanding.

By the way, I enjoy what you post and how you prove your beliefs which sometimes makes me think wow good one and excellent scripture choice that I had not considered before.

 

[God's Truth]

What do you think I've been DOING!?



This is called an argument from silence.



Which has no bearing on what I asked.

I asked you to provide where Jesus' disciples taught Christ's resurrection prior to his crucifixion.

You could argue that they could have done so and it was never recorded, but it's not likely, considering their response to His stating CLEARLY that he would be crucified, along with their responses to His death.

You CANNOT ARGUE with any authority, however, that they did teach His resurrection prior to His crucifixion, which is what you have been doing, because there IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THEY DID SUCH.

Therefore, your argument falls apart when you try to assert that they taught the same thing Paul did, because Paul taught the resurrection of Christ, the Twelve (at least as far as it was recorded) never did.



You clearly don't know what my position is if you think I should do that.



:AMR:



Why is it irritating? Do you have a beam in your eye? :mock:



Which, again, has little to nothing to do with what I asked.



Good scripture, but it doesn't answer my question.



I don't have to. You keep doing it for my by not providing scripture that shows where the Disciples taught Christ's resurrection prior to his crucifixion.

That is one huge piece of evidence that Paul taught something other than what the Twelve taught.



Uh, no. It was TO BE JESUS' throne on EARTH.

God, who is spirit, doesn't need a throne.



And Jesus became a man.



:blabla:

This has nothing to do with what we were talking about.







Uh, no, that's when Jesus will rule with a ROD OF IRON.



Duh. How is that relevant to the topic?







Then you assert that "circumcision" and "uncircumcision" are the same.



It's only confusing to you, GT.

God is not the author of confusion.



Sure, I could, but what good would it do you when you clearly think that you have it right and won't even consider that you're wrong?



So you don't know what a plot twist is?



Paul taught Romans 10:9-10, to have faith in who Jesus is (Lord Jesus Christ), and what He did (raised Himself from the dead).

Repentance came later.



"Repent" means "to turn away".

To "repent and turn to God" means to turn away and turn to God.

It says nothing about sin.



And they received the gospel of the circumcision from the Twelve.



"It" being "the gospel of the circumcision.

Paul taught the gospel of the uncircumcision to the Gentiles, the uncircumcised.

Explain to me what you think the gospel to the circumcised is.

Explain to me how you get that Paul came and taught a different gospel.

As for our repenting, we humans have to repent of our sins and have faith.

 

[Bright Raven]

One of the Bible’s greatest truths is that Christ died to take away all our sins–not just part of them, but all of them: past, present, and future.

This is why you shouldn’t fear that you will lose your salvation every time you commit a sin. If that were the case, you and I would lose our salvation every day–because we sin every day. Even if our actions are pure, our thoughts often are not. And even if our actions and thoughts are pure, we still sin because of the good things we should be doing but fail to do.

Never forget: Your salvation does not depend on you and how good you are.

It depends solely on Christ and what He has already done for you through His death on the cross. The Bible says that Christ “appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself” (Hebrews 9:26).

Does that mean it doesn’t matter whether or not you sin? No, of course not. Sin is serious; it is an offense to God, and it breaks our fellowship with Him. Sin also compromises our witness for Christ. The Bible is clear: “Be holy, because I am holy” (1 Peter 1:16).

But you cannot live the Christian life in your own strength. You need God’s help–which is why He has given His Holy Spirit to you. When you sin, confess it immediately, and then seek the Holy Spirit’s help each day to live as you should.

 

[Rosenritter]

Are you afraid to tackle the verses in the OP?

There's a bot that randomly posts "You don't know how to rightly divide the word of God" in threads. Don't expect it to have any relevance to meaning or content.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

It’s sad that not one person on this thread actually understands Hamartiology, instead thinking that the noun of sin is the verb or its results as actions from actING.

Literally, not one person understands it, but all are offering adamant subjective opinion-based eisegetics of scripture. Sad.

 

[steko]

GT ... there are several people here who are ...
“always learning and NEVER able to come to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Timothy 3:7, NKJV)
Thus, and so, it's a waste of time to deal with them.
IMO, we should try to help those whom we see
are OPEN to the truth.

That accusation can run right back at ya'.