ECT What is better about D'ism?

I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Let's suppose for discussion that D'ism has no more or less evidence for its beliefs about Israel or the new covenant or a separate program than any other view. That aside--don't go back into that in your answer to the question--what is better about D'ism than the Gospel of Heb 9:15 and who is it better for and why?
 
N

northwye

New member
What are the beliefs of dispensationalism about Old Covenant Israel and about the New Covenant? The dispensationalists on TOL may not give a clear answer to this question, which is part of their dialectic game.

And I keep wanting to study the similarities between the dialectic game now being used by the mainstream media to promote and defend the Democratic Party. the Left, the Neocons and other factions which support the ruling elite's programs and the dialectic game of these TOl dispensationalists.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
northwye said:
The dispensationalists on TOL may not give a clear answer to this question
Click to expand...

False. We've all repeatedly said as plainly as it can be said: the New Covenant is not ours. God has no covenants with Gentiles today. He has no covenant with the Body of Christ. He has no covenant with Israel at this time. No Jew can make any claim before God that in any way puts him in line before any Gentile. The whole world today is solely under grace, not covenant, because the whole world has been counted as equally lost.

In short: an in-force covenant would by definition give preferential status to whomever is party to that covenant with God. There is no one today in a covenant relationship with God. It's grace or nothing.

In shorter: New Covenant: not yours.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Thanks for not answering the question Must.

The question was why is your position better and who for and what grounds?

I think your position is hooey. Period. But I hope you have the mind to go on to the OP question.

The New Covenant is better because is was done by Christ on behalf of all who believe. "I will make you a covenant for the nations." It does not depend on a human party (you have an awfully high view of depraved man being able to keep a covenant!)

Btw, one thing your position makes me wonder is if you actually have a view that God kept offering a 2nd round to Israel right up until the destruction. That would satisfy your need to have an Israel-only covenant, but it is a bogus reading of what was being offered in that generation.

If you mean that the new covenant is through Christ and in him on behalf of all others, then we can agree that no one else has a covenant--as long as you allow for one through him. Because it is definitely in effect right now.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
musterion said:
False. We've all repeatedly said as plainly as it can be said: the New Covenant is not ours. God has no covenants with Gentiles today. He has no covenant with the Body of Christ. He has no covenant with Israel at this time. No Jew can make any claim before God that in any way puts him in line before any Gentile. The whole world today is solely under grace, not covenant, because the whole world has been counted as equally lost.

In short: an in-force covenant would by definition give preferential status to whomever is party to that covenant with God. There is no one today in a covenant relationship with God. It's grace or nothing.

In shorter: New Covenant: not yours.
Click to expand...
https://hischarisisenough.wordpress.com/2014/09/21/are-gentiles-included-in-the-new-covenant/
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Thanks for not answering the question Must.

The question was why is your position better and who for and what grounds?
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We've answered that too, many times. We've tried explaining to you that grace is FAR better than covenant (even if you HAD a covenant to claim with God, which you do not). But you do not have ears to hear and are an idle babbler, so I chose to answer his post, not yours.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
patrick jane said:
https://hischarisisenough.wordpress.com/2014/09/21/are-gentiles-included-in-the-new-covenant/
Click to expand...

No one today - Jew nor Gentile - has any biblical covenant they can appeal to with God.

Nor do they need to.

ALL are under grace and nothing else BECAUSE ALL HAVE BEEN COUNTED IN UNBELIEF. Anyone on earth can simply believe the Gospel of grace and be forgiven and justified from all things, but the Gospel is not a covenant one "claims." It's simply good news to be believed with gladness.

Christendom would have been much better off if people had relegated the word covenant to the history of Israel where it belongs and quit trying to greedily steal from God a covenant for themselves.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
SaulToPaul said:
Isaiah 42
6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;


This is what it actually says. It is very simple.
Stop perverting it.
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Who is actually referred to in Isaiah 42:6 if not Jesus Christ?

Read Luke 4:16-21
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
Isaiah 42
6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;


This is what it actually says. It is very simple.
Stop perverting it.
Click to expand...


Hi and I wonder IF he will say what Heb 9:15 really means ??

dan p
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
That's it right there.

Forgive my bluntness but you're debating an unbeliever and wondering why he won't deal squarely with Scripture or with you. He has a vested interest in claiming a covenant that isn't his -- in the Gospel of grace not being the only saving Good News today -- and he will not vary from that position.

If that isn't an unbeliever I don't know what is.
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
musterion said:
That's it right there.

Forgive my bluntness but you're debating an unbeliever and wondering why he won't deal squarely with Scripture or with you. He has a vested interest in claiming a covenant that isn't his -- in the Gospel of grace not being the only saving Good News today -- and he will not vary from that position.

If that isn't an unbeliever I don't know what is.
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Hi and I believe that what he answers OR doen't answer is seen , by more then us and some times I do see more and understand more of my OP , but that is me !!

All have noticed that basically , many are saved , like me who came out of Pentecostalism an other " ism " that believe in God and with many it is hard to tell !!

Also many can never tell how they were saved !!

All have seen that when I ask , HOW he was saved , under a 1P 1P ot under the New Covenant he can not answer !!

dan p
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
DAN P said:
Hi and I believe that what he answers OR doen't answer is seen , by more then us and some times I do see more and understand more of my OP , but that is me !!

All have noticed that basically , many are saved , like me who came out of Pentecostalism an other " ism " that believe in God and with many it is hard to tell !!

Also many can never tell how they were saved !!

All have seen that when I ask , HOW he was saved , under a 1P 1P or under the New Covenant he can not answer !!

dan p
Click to expand...

That's right, Dan, he won't say.
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
musterion said:
That's right, Dan, he won't say.
Click to expand...


Hi and NOT ONE TIME dis IP ever reply to my OP on Rom 5:14 and as I said WHERE IS A PENTECOSAL when we need one ??

How were they saved from Adam until Moses ?

How was Peter saved under the Law ??

How are we saved during the MYSTERY ??

How are Gentiles saved during the Millennium ??

How are Jews saved today , 2 Cor 3:16 ??

He has no CLUE !!

dan p
 
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