ECT If David Calls Him 'Lord'

[andyc]

You have trouble with comprehension and well, just everyday life don't you?

Not at all.
David said,"the Lord said to my Lord, ""sit at my right hand"".

Now, you see, this was the king of Israel saying this. So what we have to understand here, with the help of the Holy Spirit, is that a man was saying, God said to a man, "sit at my right hand". In other words, there would arise a man who would sit next to God in the kingdom that David had faith in.

Now this flies over the head of a madist like a defunct concord.

 

[Tambora]

Far out!

hehe!
Telling our age, which is now firmly in the category of "OLD".

 

[andyc]

David died and Solomon ruled from his father's throne.

Solomon died and Rehoboam ruled from his grandfather's throne....the throne of David.

You're forgetting, Jesus is called the Son of David according to the flesh (Rom 1:3).
You have to separate flesh from Spirit.

Now, according to the flesh, Jesus cannot reign over David, because the Son cannot reign over the Father.

Oh...now we're getting somewhere.

So there is a different spiritual arrangement not according to the flesh, which of course is what the gospel is all about in the first place.
The temple that David wanted to build is symbolic of Christ, but David was unable to perform the worship that the Levites were prescribed to do. This means that there was more, and David saw it by faith when he said ......Psalms 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me All the days of my life; And I will dwell in the house of the LORD Forever.

Now, the way into the most holy place was not made possible while the first tabernacle was still standing. The first tabernacle is the flesh, and flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. This, believe it or not, is your mad mystery revealed. The way into the presence of God, other than the flesh.
David saw that he would be able, but didn't know how. It would be a new and living way, a spiritual transformation. Christ is not the Son of David according to the Spirit, he is the Son of God. And those who are of like faith are also sons of God. Therefore it cannot be a king reigning over sons, because a son is an heir in the same manner that Christ is an heir of God. Therefore like the apostle John, we have no choice but to say, "we do not know what we shall be, just as David didn't know. But he madist claims to know, for nothing other than theology sake, not according to scripture.

 

[andyc]

He's not King of Israel until a believing remnant which survives as the nation of Israel receives Him as King of Israel and He rules from David's throne.

The Lord Jesus calls Himself 'the Son of man' in:

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:


He calls Himself 'King' after He sits on His glorious throne:

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


Note that the Kingdom of Messiah begins at the judgement of the nations, at Christ's second coming.

But, as I said earlier today, Jesus explained that his kingdom is not of this world. He is from above, and the kingdom is above.

 

[Nang]

David was chosen as king by GOD.

David did not take the throne right away.
David served others (tending livestock for his family, serving king Saul, and killing Goliath).
He LATER sat on his throne and was then served as king.

When Jesus came the first time, He did not come to be served (as a king would be); He came to serve. (Matt 20:28 and Mark 10:45)
It will be LATER when Christ sits on David's throne (and will be served as king).

Matthew 25:31 KJV
(31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:​

Hasn't happened yet.

Is happening now. Jesus Christ as God the Son, the same yesterday and forever, has always been King of this creation. His throne is forever, as revealed to David, from whom the Son of Man issued forth.

 

[Tambora]

Is happening now.

Nope. The 2nd coming is not happening now.

 

[TweetyBird]

Christ was raised up 'to sit' on David's throne.
Indeed, He was.



Vs 31 refers to:

Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

....as prophecied by David in Psa 16:10 and says nothing about David's throne but only refers to Christ's resurrection from the dead.

Jesus sat on David's throne when He resurrected. That is what Acts 2 states.

This verse says that Christ was raised up 'to sit' on David's throne, which I whole-heartedly always affirm. It does not say that Christ is now sitting on David's throne.

So He's raised up but just standing there, staring at it?

Rev says He is on the throne.

The Lord Himself states that He will sit on that throne at His second coming Mt 25:31, which is in harmony with all the prophets.

He is on the Throne now. We will see Him sitting on the Throne when He returns.

Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Read Rev 4 - it's all about Jesus on the Throne - now.

Rev 5
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 7:17
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Revelation 21:5
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[Nang]

Nope. The 2nd coming is not happening now.

I am not referring to the 2nd coming.

The Kingdom of God is eternal, the Kingdom is Christ's, so He has always been King of that Kingdom. Even the Romans who crucified Him, acknowledged the truth of His office when they lifted Him up on the cross and identified Him as "King of the Jews."

 

[andyc]

Jesus sat on David's throne when He resurrected. That is what Acts 2 states.




So He's raised up but just standing there, staring at it?

Rev says He is on the throne.



He is on the Throne now. We will see Him sitting on the Throne when He returns.

Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Read Rev 4 - it's all about Jesus on the Throne - now.

Rev 5
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 7:17
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Revelation 21:5
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Yes, he must reign until he puts an end to all rule, authority and power.
Stephen said, "I see the Son of man standing at the right hand of God".
Mark 12:36 "For David himself said by the Holy Spirit: ‘The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."‘

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Well tweety may hate Pentys, but he's suddenly realizing what mad is about.
An evangelical Bro after all.

Yes from what I've seen Tweety believes the gospel, unlike you.
That's why I don't bother challenging Tweety on preterism.

 

[andyc]

Yes from what I've seen Tweety believes the gospel, unlike you.
That's why I don't bother challenging Tweety on preterism.

Well I don't frequent this site enough to know people much. I didn't even know tweety was female. Although I don't know the sex of the majority of people here. W acts like a girl, but he's a fat useless guy, as we know.

Preterism is a little strange, but makes more sense than the hyper dispy view. You say that tweety believes the gospel, and she probably does, but being what appears to be a staunch evangelical, she would be closer to my understanding of the gospel than you, but you'll find that out in time.

 

[TweetyBird]

He's not King of Israel until a believing remnant which survives as the nation of Israel receives Him as King of Israel and He rules from David's throne.

There is a believing remnant. Has been since Genesis. They have received Him as King. Jesus is King now. I know Jews who believe in Jesus Christ and claim Him as their King.

The Lord Jesus calls Himself 'the Son of man' in:

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

We will see what already exists. Too many verses say that He is King on His throne now.

He calls Himself 'King' after He sits on His glorious throne:

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


Note that the Kingdom of Messiah begins at the judgement of the nations, at Christ's second coming.

Jesus' Kingdom is now and forever more. His Kingdom is not of this world, but is within us. We have been translated into His Kingdom, we are citizens of Heaven. He reigns and rules over all the earth now. All things are subject to Him - all principalities and kingdoms of this world are His. When He returns, the whole earth will see His Kingdom with their own eyes and worship Him - some in terror and fear and others in worship and adoration.

 

[TweetyBird]

Yes from what I've seen Tweety believes the gospel, unlike you.
That's why I don't bother challenging Tweety on preterism.

I am not a pret. I don't need that aggravation as well.

 

[steko]

You're forgetting, Jesus is called the Son of David according to the flesh (Rom 1:3)..

No I haven't forgotten.
He is the geneological Son of David according to His mother, Mary.
Just like Paul has brethren/kinsmen according to the flesh:

Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

You have to separate flesh from Spirit.

Was the Lord Jesus a spiritual man when He ministered to Israel in the flesh?

Was He a spiritual man when He told His disciples after His resurrection that a spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see me have.

Now, according to the flesh, Jesus cannot reign over David, because the Son cannot reign over the Father.

Nonsense.

Oh...now we're getting somewhere.

You've gotten nowhere.

So there is a different spiritual arrangement not according to the flesh, which of course is what the gospel is all about in the first place.

Which gospel?

The temple that David wanted to build is symbolic of Christ, but David was unable to perform the worship that the Levites were prescribed to do. This means that there was more, and David saw it by faith when he said ......Psalms 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me All the days of my life; And I will dwell in the house of the LORD Forever.

I can't make sense of that.
Sounds like an allegorical imposition, to me.

Now, the way into the most holy place was not made possible while the first tabernacle was still standing. The first tabernacle is the flesh, and flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. This, believe it or not, is your mad mystery revealed. The way into the presence of God, other than the flesh.

Platonic spin.

David saw that he would be able, but didn't know how. It would be a new and living way, a spiritual transformation. Christ is not the Son of David according to the Spirit, he is the Son of God.

Though the Lord Jesus is GOD, He is still man and still has a physical body and promises that believers will, as well.

And those who are of like faith are also sons of God. Therefore it cannot be a king reigning over sons, because a son is an heir in the same manner that Christ is an heir of God. Therefore like the apostle John, we have no choice but to say, "we do not know what we shall be, just as David didn't know. But he madist claims to know, for nothing other than theology sake, not according to scripture.

We know that there will be a physical resurrection of believers. The nature and abilities of that new body is the sense in what John was speaking of.

Spiritual is not vs physical.
It's 'corruptible' flesh that can't inherit the kingdom of GOD.

 

[steko]

There is a believing remnant. Has been since Genesis. They have received Him as King. Jesus is King now. I know Jews who believe in Jesus Christ and claim Him as their King.

There is a prophesied remnant which will constitute a nation called again by the name Israel.

I have many believing Jewish friends in the USA and in Israel.
They have no special status as Jews and do not constitute the prophesied remnant of Israel, but are in the mystery BOC along with believing Gentiles.

Most of the believing Jews that I know believe that the Lord Jesus will return to earth, gather His elect of Israel from the four winds back to the land, and will rule from the throne of David in Jerusalem just like prophesy states....clearly.

We will see what already exists. Too many verses say that He is King on His throne now.

The verses say that He is seated in the Father's throne at the Father's right hand.
He said Himself that at His return to earth it is then that He will sit on the throne of glory, David's throne Jerusalem.

Jesus' Kingdom is now and forever more.

The Kingdom of GOD universal is and always has been and He established His throne in the heavens at creation.

Do you believe that when GOD established His throne in the heavens at the beginning of creation that it was called 'the throne of David'?

David never had a throne in heaven.
He ruled in Jerusalem over the twelve tribes in the land.
Solomon ruled over the same Kingdom.
The Kingdom was divided after Solomon and the twelve tribes have never been reunited under one King in the land, yet the prophets said that it would happen.

His Kingdom is not of this world, but is within us.

His Kingdom is not from this world which is controlled by Satan.
His Kingdom is from heaven and shall be on this earth.
"Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.."

The Holy Spirit indwells believers at the point of true belief.
The Messianic Davidic Kingdom is promised to be centered in Zion/Jerusalem.

When Christ ministered to Israel, the King was in their midst and the hard-hearted Pharisees did not perceive 'the Kingdom' in their midst(within you).

Do you really believe that the Lord was telling the unbelieving Pharisees that the Kingdom of GOD was within them? I hardly think so.

We have been translated into His Kingdom, we are citizens of Heaven.

Believers have been translated into the Kingdom of His dear Son. That's the overarching rule of Christ from heaven, but the Kingdom of GOD to the nation of Israel is yet to come and will begin at Christ's return.

He reigns and rules over all the earth now.

He will rule this earth with a rod of iron and there will be immediate justice.
That ain't happening now.

All things are subject to Him - all principalities and kingdoms of this world are His.

Yes, but He will yet bring His enemies into subjection.
They obviously aren't now.

When He returns, the whole earth will see His Kingdom with their own eyes and worship Him - some in terror and fear and others in worship and adoration.

Now, that's a switch. You seem to argue hard against this and then suddenly come over to what I've been saying all along.

 

[Interplanner]

There is a prophesied remnant which will constitute a nation called again by the name Israel.

I have many believing Jewish friends in the USA and in Israel.
They have no special status as Jews and do not constitute the prophesied remnant of Israel, but are in the mystery BOC along with believing Gentiles.

Most of the believing Jews that I know believe that the Lord Jesus will return to earth, gather His elect of Israel from the four winds back to the land, and will rule from the throne of David in Jerusalem just like prophesy states....clearly.




The verses say that He is seated in the Father's throne at the Father's right hand.
He said Himself that at His return to earth it is then that He will sit on the throne of glory, David's throne Jerusalem.


The Kingdom of GOD universal is and always has been and He established His throne in the heavens at creation.

Do you believe that when GOD established His throne in the heavens at the beginning of creation that it was called 'the throne of David'?

David never had a throne in heaven.
He ruled in Jerusalem over the twelve tribes in the land.
Solomon ruled over the same Kingdom.
The Kingdom was divided after Solomon and the twelve tribes have never been reunited under one King in the land, yet the prophets said that it would happen.





His Kingdom is not from this world which is controlled by Satan.
His Kingdom is from heaven and shall be on this earth.
"Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.."

The Holy Spirit indwells believers at the point of true belief.
The Messianic Davidic Kingdom is promised to be centered in Zion/Jerusalem.

When Christ ministered to Israel, the King was in their midst and the hard-hearted Pharisees did not perceive 'the Kingdom' in their midst(within you).

Do you really believe that the Lord was telling the unbelieving Pharisees that the Kingdom of GOD was within them? I hardly think so.




Believers have been translated into the Kingdom of His dear Son. That's the overarching rule of Christ from heaven, but the Kingdom of GOD to the nation of Israel is yet to come and will begin at Christ's return.



He will rule this earth with a rod of iron and there will be immediate justice.
That ain't happening now.




Yes, but He will yet bring His enemies into subjection.
They obviously aren't now.




Now, that's a switch. You seem to argue hard against this and then suddenly come over to what I've been saying all along.

There is no other/future episode with Israel. There is no theological need for it, if you follow Hebrews. It would make a mockery of the two catastrophes that have happened already, all of which was only imagery to get people to believe the Gospel and the blessing of the coming NHNE.

 

[steko]

There is no other/future episode with Israel. There is no theological need for it, if you follow Hebrews. It would make a mockery of the two catastrophes that have happened already, all of which was only imagery to get people to believe the Gospel and the blessing of the coming NHNE.

I'm well aware of your proclamations.

 

[Danoh]

I'm well aware of your proclamations.

He's being "Platonic" :chuckle:

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

There is no other/future episode with Israel. There is no theological need for it, if you follow Hebrews. It would make a mockery of the two catastrophes that have happened already, all of which was only imagery to get people to believe the Gospel and the blessing of the coming NHNE.

Yes, the dawning of the gospel event and adjacent dismantling of 2p2p, in light of the elemental collapse of all things and the sermonette of Acts 13 foreshadows the NHNE paradigm....therefore, this view cannot be tangible.

 

[Interplanner]

Yes, the dawning of the gospel event and adjacent dismantling of 2p2p, in light of the elemental collapse of all things and the sermonette of Acts 13 foreshadows the NHNE paradigm....therefore, this view cannot be tangible.

That's a pile of nonsense, but yes the era of the law was dismantled, which is why Gal 3:17 had to be stated. A theocracy in Israel again would be to reinstate that which was removed in the age of Christ.