ECT D'ism's doubts about the Davidic kingdom vs NT teaching

[Interplanner]

The D'ist is afraid that the Bible is not reliable if there is no Davidic kingdom in Israel forthcoming.

1, the methodology is wrong. We are CHRISTIANS which means we read the OT as people IN CHRIST, and that it is fulfilled IN CHRIST.

2, Paul answers your doubt in Acts 13! The resurrection is where all is fulfilled!

3, If you were really concerned about proving the Bible, why are you so opposed to the actual meaning of Mt24A and parallels about the Destruction of Jerusalem in the 1st century? This material is such top drawer, that Pastor Holford used it in 1805 England to defeat the circulation of Payne's essays that sought to undercut the entire Bible. When the Huxley's resumed Payne's campaign in the next generation, they dared not talk about the DofJ! No, sir, they spent their effort on geologic fantasy.

4, The NT uses language about David's kingdom and a restored Israel to be about the mission of the Gospel of Messiah. The whole earth is to be taught that this place belongs to Christ who now reigns, 'though the eye of sinful man / his glory may not see.' Once you see this, you will not have 'trouble' sorting out early Acts nor reading Acts 15 about the raising of David's fallen tent, which was to be for all nations. That generation of Israel (the mid first century) was to have kick started the Messianic mission to the nations!!

 

[way 2 go]

The D'ist is afraid that the Bible is not reliable if there is no Davidic kingdom in Israel forthcoming.


1, the methodology is wrong. We are CHRISTIANS which means we read the OT as people IN CHRIST, and that it is fulfilled IN CHRIST.

are you a preterist ?

2, Paul answers your doubt in Acts 13! The resurrection is where all is fulfilled!

are you seeking to mislead people ?
define what you mean by all.


All the things written of Jesus were fulfilled .

Act 13:29**And when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him,



Paul says the casting away of Israel
is the reconciling of the world.

Rom 11:15**For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?


Act 13:46**And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Act 13:47**For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, "'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'"

 

[Danoh]

are you a preterist ?


are you seeking to mislead people ?
define what you mean by all.


All the things written of Jesus were fulfilled .

Act 13:29**And when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him,



Paul says the casting away of Israel
is the reconciling of the world.

Rom 11:15**For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?


Act 13:46**And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Act 13:47**For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, "'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'"

Interplanner subscribes to the views of Partial Preterism, more or less.

"More or less" being in the sense of my take from the recurrent pattern within his posts, that he does not fully subscribe to it as most hold to it, but instead strives towards what he believes his contributions are - much better refinements of Partial Preterism.

He is smart...within a dumb view :chuckle:

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The D'ist is afraid that the Bible is not reliable if there is no Davidic kingdom in Israel forthcoming.

1, the methodology is wrong. We are CHRISTIANS which means we read the OT as people IN CHRIST, and that it is fulfilled IN CHRIST.

2, Paul answers your doubt in Acts 13! The resurrection is where all is fulfilled!

3, If you were really concerned about proving the Bible, why are you so opposed to the actual meaning of Mt24A and parallels about the Destruction of Jerusalem in the 1st century? This material is such top drawer, that Pastor Holford used it in 1805 England to defeat the circulation of Payne's essays that sought to undercut the entire Bible. When the Huxley's resumed Payne's campaign in the next generation, they dared not talk about the DofJ! No, sir, they spent their effort on geologic fantasy.

4, The NT uses language about David's kingdom and a restored Israel to be about the mission of the Gospel of Messiah. The whole earth is to be taught that this place belongs to Christ who now reigns, 'though the eye of sinful man / his glory may not see.' Once you see this, you will not have 'trouble' sorting out early Acts nor reading Acts 15 about the raising of David's fallen tent, which was to be for all nations. That generation of Israel (the mid first century) was to have kick started the Messianic mission to the nations!!

Davids Kingdom only pointed to Christs Kingdom and while some believers have received the Spirit of Christs Kingdom, the Kingdom of Christ has not yet filled the whole earth which even at Christs return is a sequence of events until it is full.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

BTW-

Your abbreviations mean nothing to any except the well versed, so they will just ignore what you are saying.

LA

 

[Danoh]

Nah, I'm fine with his abbreviations.

Just a matter of looking at things from a higher level of abstraction.

From there, being well versed or not, is unnecessary but for those ever in need of having spoonfed to them what another meant.

Looking at things from a higher level of abstraction is what a properly sound, consistent MAD, results in...

Or as the first Madist put it...

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

 

[patrick jane]

Danoh coddles Interplanner

 

[patrick jane]

The D'ist is afraid that the Bible is not reliable if there is no Davidic kingdom in Israel forthcoming.

1, the methodology is wrong. We are CHRISTIANS which means we read the OT as people IN CHRIST, and that it is fulfilled IN CHRIST.

2, Paul answers your doubt in Acts 13! The resurrection is where all is fulfilled!

3, If you were really concerned about proving the Bible, why are you so opposed to the actual meaning of Mt24A and parallels about the Destruction of Jerusalem in the 1st century? This material is such top drawer, that Pastor Holford used it in 1805 England to defeat the circulation of Payne's essays that sought to undercut the entire Bible. When the Huxley's resumed Payne's campaign in the next generation, they dared not talk about the DofJ! No, sir, they spent their effort on geologic fantasy.

4, The NT uses language about David's kingdom and a restored Israel to be about the mission of the Gospel of Messiah. The whole earth is to be taught that this place belongs to Christ who now reigns, 'though the eye of sinful man / his glory may not see.' Once you see this, you will not have 'trouble' sorting out early Acts nor reading Acts 15 about the raising of David's fallen tent, which was to be for all nations. That generation of Israel (the mid first century) was to have kick started the Messianic mission to the nations!!

Another extemporaneous thread from the amazing Interplanner -

View attachment 24716

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Danoh coddles Interplanner

Interplanner knows there will be no reintroduction of Israel under the law in the Kingdom.

LA

 

[Interplanner]

Davids Kingdom only pointed to Christs Kingdom and while some believers have received the Spirit of Christs Kingdom, the Kingdom of Christ has not yet filled the whole earth which even at Christs return is a sequence of events until it is full.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

BTW-

Your abbreviations mean nothing to any except the well versed, so they will just ignore what you are saying.

LA

There are not enough new people on here to think that the usuals would be lost about D'ism. But for the few new, it is Dispensationalism.

Mt24A is the first segment of that chapter up to 'immediately after this' in v29. The setting changes from that generation in Judea to some point in the future world wide.

The plain language passages on the 2nd coming all transpire quickly. The Rev does not count here because of the massive symbolism, the audience being 1st century Jews in the trauma of the DofJ, and the way the prophecy starts over. The 2nd coming which ends this world and replaces it with the NHNE happens very quickly, without Judaic details, and if God and Christ are the temple and the light, is their any normal physical reality as we know it? There's no marriage because we are like angels...

 

[Danoh]

Danoh coddles Interplanner

If you say so.

At the same time; at least you spoke your mind.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

There are not enough new people on here to think that the usuals would be lost about D'ism. But for the few new, it is Dispensationalism.

Mt24A is the first segment of that chapter up to 'immediately after this' in v29. The setting changes from that generation in Judea to some point in the future world wide.

The plain language passages on the 2nd coming all transpire quickly. The Rev does not count here because of the massive symbolism, the audience being 1st century Jews in the trauma of the DofJ, and the way the prophecy starts over. The 2nd coming which ends this world and replaces it with the NHNE happens very quickly, without Judaic details, and if God and Christ are the temple and the light, is their any normal physical reality as we know it? There's no marriage because we are like angels...

When you study the symbolism of the book of Rev. then you will understand it.

but if you just try to fit it into your preterism then you will never know the truth of it.

LA

 

[patrick jane]

If you say so.

At the same time; at least you spoke your mind.

I'm sorry Danoh, I was being sarcastic, you actually put IP in his place quite often.

 

[patrick jane]

Interplanner knows there will be no reintroduction of Israel under the law in the Kingdom.

LA

Are you a preterist too ?

 

[Interplanner]

When you study the symbolism of the book of Rev. then you will understand it.

but if you just try to fit it into your preterism then you will never know the truth of it.

LA

I don't do "fittings" because I don't have a coherent idea what preterism is like I do D'ist futurism. The first page says these things were to happen immediately, quickly. The harlot is stoned and the wedding takes place, happily. Eph 5 says we are already married in Christ. The NHNE of 21 has not taken place yet. What's the question?

I don't base anything on the Rev that is not crystal clear in plain language elsewhere. People from 2000 years away and 8000 miles away with no language experience, and who have never studied Judaism, who walk into a room and claim to be 'experts' on the Rev's symbols because of a speaker or seminar or book they just got, claiming for the 10,000 time, to be the only answer to the Rev, are simply out of their minds. It's junk-eschatology.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I don't do "fittings" because I don't have a coherent idea what preterism is like I do D'ist futurism. The first page says these things were to happen immediately, quickly.

The events occur quickly after they begin--

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly(quickly) come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Isa 42:13 The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.
Isa 42:14 I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once.
Isa 42:15 I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools.
Isa 42:16 And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.

The harlot is stoned and the wedding takes place, happily. Eph 5 says we are already married in Christ. The NHNE of 21 has not taken place yet. What's the question?

We are as yet under the promise of marriage, given of the Spirit to keep us for the marriage of Rev.ch 19.

I don't base anything on the Rev that is not crystal clear in plain language elsewhere.

Well it is if you search for it.

People from 2000 years away and 8000 miles away with no language experience, and who have never studied Judaism, who walk into a room and claim to be 'experts' on the Rev's symbols because of a speaker or seminar or book they just got, claiming for the 10,000 time, to be the only answer to the Rev, are simply out of their minds. It's junk-eschatology.

How could you know unless you knew the truths of the book of Rev. and you clearly do not by your own confession.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Are you a preterist too ?

No.

 

[Danoh]

Any Madist who truly and consistently knows his Mad, should be able to easily pick up on where anyone is coming from - without having to ask them.

Or as the first Madist put it...

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Does the Mad have the mind of Christ in Romans thru Philemon, or does he or she not?

We know all other TOLers do not.

Which is why they remain so clueless in their attempted judgement (discerment) of Mad.

What remains for the well grounded Mad, is, to paraphrase "Charlie" - "an intuitive synthesis of established Mid-Acts principles..."

 

[Interplanner]

Any Madist who truly and consistently knows his Mad, should be able to easily pick up on where anyone is coming from - without having to ask them.

Or as the first Madist put it...

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Does the Mad have the mind of Christ in Romans thru Philemon, or does he or she not?

We know all other TOLers do not.

Which is why they remain so clueless in their attempted judgement (discerment) of Mad.

What remains for the well grounded Mad, is, to paraphrase "Charlie" - "an intuitive synthesis of established Mid-Acts principles..."

It is truly sick when a passage like I Cor that is about Christ our righteousness, wisdom, sanctification etc is said to be about MAD or it's man-made fraud. You are splitting hairs about when exactly the Spirit worked on people; the things Paul taught are back in the Gospels and before. Easily.

 

[Interplanner]

Some people love compartmentalising. They must have a compartmentality. I love symphonizing. And the NT is very symphonic, also with Isaiah and all the way back to Genesis.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Some people love compartmentalising. They must have a compartmentality. I love symphonizing. And the NT is very symphonic, also with Isaiah and all the way back to Genesis.

Symphony at the expense of incorrect doctrine is wickedness.