ECT The falling away from the faith, and that man of sin is revealed in them

[SaulToPaul 2]

Interplanner is a preterist and he's also stuck in the OT and stuck on Israel :chuckle:

Yes, IP is "smarter than God" and is bent on helping God get out of all the promises he made in the OT.

 

[Interplanner]

Yes, IP is "smarter than God" and is bent on helping God get out of all the promises he made in the OT.

Do you have other words in your vocab besides stuck? If anything I'm "stuck" in the NT and on the mission of God in the new/messianic era that God wanted Israel to be in. See the parable of the minas.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Do you have other words in your vocab besides stuck? If anything I'm "stuck" in the NT and on the mission of God in the new/messianic era that God wanted Israel to be in. See the parable of the minas.

I didn't say you were stuck, but I stand by my statement.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

So was Paul talking about a single man in 2 Thess. or a single evil spirit and also other seducing spirits working in a whole wicked generation like Jesus said? Well if you read the whole chapter in 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 you will see this truth shown…“And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

Clearly Paul was talking about more than one single individual man in the above verses using words like them , they, and they all.

But what about the term “son of perdition?” It speaks of the same thing, as was first shown in Judas (one who broke bread at the Lords table) who also sold out the Truth for a pocket full of silver, just as the firstborn Esau sold his birth right for some red pottage.(sin) Look at what Peter had to say about the “son of perdition.”

Peter goes on to quote scripture concerning Judas, (son of perdition) in the Psalms Acts 1:20 “For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.” Now, in order to confirm my point about there being more than one “son of perdition” or son who goes into destruction, let’s look at the Psalms from where Peter was drawing this from.

In Psalm 69 we see this same language used in verse Psalm 69:25 “Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.” Notice the Psalm says “their” as in more than one. As a matter of fact, if you read the whole Psalm the Lord is speaking of many, like in verse 4 the Lord says “they that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head”. The Lord repeatedly uses the words “they their, and them”, in the Psalm just as Paul also used the same language in 2 Thess 2:10-12 describing the man of sin, (lawlessness) and son of perdition.

Now let’s confirm the same message in another Psalm which speaks of what Peter quoted also in Psalm 109:8 “Let his days be few; and let another take his office.” Now that sounds more like what Peter was quoting from when he said in Acts 1:20 “Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take” Which this does speak specifically about the single man Judas. (Which has already been fulfilled as Jesus noted in John 17:12.)

But let’s now look at that Psalm in the greater context of what is being said.

Psalm 109:1-13 Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;2 For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.”

So though him was referring to the single man Judas in this Psalm, as both Jesus and Peter confirmed, I believe it is very clear that Paul was not talking about a single man yet to come, but rather a whole wicked generation who would fall away from following after the Truth in Christ, and also go into destruction.

Yes,

The antichrist spirit works in believers who hold back their hearts from surrender to Christs words as also did Judas.

Joh 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
Joh 13:9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Joh 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
Joh 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

Joh 13:21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

It is impossible for the half hearted today, to do otherwise than Judas did when the time comes.

LA

 

[serpentdove]

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame (Heb 6:4–6).

 

[serpentdove]

[Lost posts] There is something goofy going on in here.

It's not CERN. :carryon:

 

[serpentdove]

Obviously those living at the last day get reunited through a different channel than those dead...

There are different resurrections.

‘When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field when you reap, nor shall you gather any gleaning from your harvest. You shall leave them for the poor and for the stranger: I am the Lord your God.’” Le 23:22

 

[serpentdove]

[T]he whole mentality of the NT was that the 2nd coming was to have come so quickly that the Thess thought it already had.

That was because a bunch of dead people were walking around: The graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many (Mt 27:52–53).

Tares aren't going into the Millennium. :burnlib: Wheat goes (Mt 24:41). :straight: Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn (Mt 13:29–30).

 

[Interplanner]

That was because a bunch of dead people were walking around: The graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many (Mt 27:52–53).

Tares aren't going into the Millennium. :burnlib: Wheat goes (Mt 24:41). :straight: Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn (Mt 13:29–30).

Do you think people over in Thessalonica, Greece, had hot rumors about those people that are never mentioned anywhere else in the NT? Do you really think the connnection was that close?

 

[ThreeAngels]

We are warned in 1 Timothy 4:1 “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;” Also in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”

The falling away from the faith above mentioned by Paul has to do with the saints of God being overcome by all the lies and deception of the Devil by way of his spirit, which is the spirit of a lie. This spirit of a lie is also shown as the false prophet spirit which works in many deceivers. As many false prophets and teachers were foretold to come into the world like a swarm of locusts from hell and darken the Light of the Truth in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I believe Paul was playing off the words of Jesus when he referred to “that man” and “son of perdition” in the above verse. But this is not to be misunderstood as a being single individual man yet to come in the future like Judas, but rather it speaks of the sin nature of man (mystery of iniquity) being raised back up again in the world and embraced. These seducing spirits and doctrines of devils would enter into the man-made church system, thereby causing many to play the Harlot with the ways of the world, and thereby making them desolate of good works and naked by sin.

Notice how Jesus refers to a whole wicked generation as “a man” and “ that man” (like Paul said) here in Matthew 12:43-45 “When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.”

Now notice the wording Jesus used showing the “last state of that man” referring to a whole wicked generation compared to Peters concerning this same falling away in 2 Peter 2:20-22 “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

Many of the saints being overcome is also shown here in Revelation 13:7 “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” So this spirit of deception and lies would also overcome many of the saints as is also confirmed here in Daniel 7:21 “I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;” That horn is the tail of the red Dragon, which speaks of the spirit of a lie working in all the false prophets of the world. This spirit of a lie was foretold to practice and prosper in the world and also cast the truth and also some of the host of heaven to the ground.

Continued on next...

The falling away resulted in the institution of the papacy. The Catholic church is the falling away. The Pope of Rome is the man of sin and son of perdition.

 

[serpentdove]

"falling away ἀποστᾰσία, ἡ, late form for ἀπόστασις, defection, revolt, v.l. in D.H.7.1, J.Vit.10, Plu.Galb.1; esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God, apostasy, LXXJo.22.22, 2Ep.Th.2.3." LSJ

"ἀποστασία (apostasia). n. rebellion, apostasy, abandonment. Refers to rebelling or abandoning a former authority. The Greek word apostasia is the source of the English word “apostasy.” It is used only twice in the NT. Acts 21:21 reports a rumor that Paul is teaching Jews to abandon (apostasia) the teachings of Moses. Second Thessalonians 2:3 foretells a great “falling away” or “rebellion” (apostasia) from the Christian faith before the day of Christ." LTW