ECT WHY I AM CATHOLIC

[Cruciform]

Of course I do! The only record of the what Jesus said and taught is in the Holy Scripture.

Unfortunately for your wholly sectarian assumption, your assertion here is itself nowhere taught in the Bible, and so merely refutes itself.

Really? Can you show me where Jesus said I had to a be a part of the Roman Catholic sect by name?

The question is internally flawed, and so cannot be answered, since the Catholic Church is---by definition---not a "sect." Try again.

...how about Peter? how about Paul? Andrew? Timothy? Anybody who actually walked with Christ?

Yes. The New Testament makes it clear that to be saved one is to place faith in Christ and be baptized into the one historic Church that He Himself founded, submitting to her beliefs and teachings as articulated by His chosen apostles and bishops.

If she didn't die for your sins, if she was not sent for the forgiveness of your sins, then why do you "talk to her on bended knee, folded hand and bowed head but not pray" to her?

You can begin to educate yourself HERE.

No, that is what the men of the Roman Magisterium say...

Exactly. That's what the ordained successors of the apostles have taught and, therefore, what Jesus Christ himself has taught (Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15).

Matthew 6:6-8 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Amen. Catholics pray to the Father all the time.

Note that Jesus said we are to pray to His Father, not the communion of the saints. Which does not exist in scripture.

Try again.

You are my fellow Christian, Mary is not.

Try again.

Mary is dead and with her Son and His Father.

The Saints in heaven are more "alive" than you and I, having been freed of sin and in the direct presence of God Almighty. For example, Jesus himself had a conversation with two of them in the presence of some of his earthly disciples (Lk. 9:28-36).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[CabinetMaker]

This is your claim? Even though Mormons believe, among other things:

~that they can become gods and goddesses.
~that goddesses will spend eternity in full submission to their god-husband.
~that women will give birth “forever and ever” to spirit-babies.
~that men can have multiple wives in heaven—eternalpolygamy. They intend to have many wives in heaven, carrying on multiple sex relations throughout eternity, until they have enough children to populate their own earth, so they can be "Heavenly Father" over their own planet!
~that Heavenly Father is an exalted man who lives with his goddess wife, Heavenly Mother, on a planet near the great star Kolob.
~that God the Father had sex with Mary to conceive Jesus. They say Virgin Mary really wasn't a virgin at all but had sex relations with their heavenly father to produce the Mormon version of Jesus Christ.
~that there is only salvation through the Mormons and all other Christian churches are wrong and Mormons also do baptisms for their dead.
~that they need 4 secret handshakes to get into the Celestial heaven.
~that Joseph Smith revealed that the actual Garden of Eden is in Jackson County, Missouri.
~that Lucifer and Jesus are brothers.
~that the angel Gabriel came down to earth and became Noah in the days of the flood.
~that the Bible is untrustworthy and full of errors.
~that the Archangel Michael came down to earth with several of his celestial wives, and became Adam in the garden of Eden.
~The Mormon founder and their Prophet Joseph Smith prophesied falsely many times. For example, he foretold the second coming of Christ for 1891. The Bible teaches that one false prophecy puts the prophet under death sentence. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
~that before 1978 they considered the Negro race inferior, and even one drop of Negro blood prevented a person from entering their priesthood. Now they will allow men of African decent to be priests but the fact that they once taught this proves they're a False Religion.
~Mormons have books other than the Bible that they call scriptures such as the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants. All these and even their official "Mormon Doctrine" statements contradict each other on MAJOR doctrinal points. The King James Bible is also contradicted by these books.
~that Jesus had at least three wives and children while he was on this earth.
~Joseph Smith taught that there were inhabitants on the moon, and Brigham Young taught there were inhabitants on the sun as well! The fact that these two men once taught this proves they were not real Prophets of God. They were false prophets and this religion is leading many souls to Hell still today.
~that there is no salvation without Joseph Smith. They teach that Joseph Smith holds the keys to the Kingdom of God. They teach that Jesus' death on the cross only partially saves the believer. They also teach that people will stand before God, Jesus and Joseph Smith on Judgement Day.


What kind of Christian refuses to "test the spirits" (1 Jn. 4:1) to see whether they comport with the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic Church (Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 15:2; 16:4; Rom. 16:17; 2 Thess. 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6)?



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Ever take a close look at what Catholics believe? Most Catholics aren't in a whole lot better shape. Besides, many churches teach some pretty weird stuff. We are not judged by what our churches teach but upon what we do with Christ. Do we accept Him or reject Him. If a person accepts their teachings over Christ then they are not saved. If a person accepts Christ over the teachings of their chosen sect, they are saved. Salvation is not about believing what your church teaches, it is about surrendering to Christ and letting Him become Lord of your life. Salvation is about God, not churches.

 

[Cruciform]

Ever take a close look at what Catholics believe? Most Catholics aren't in a whole lot better shape. Besides, many churches teach some pretty weird stuff. We are not judged by what our churches teach but upon what we do with Christ. Do we accept Him or reject Him. If a person accepts their teachings over Christ then they are not saved. If a person accepts Christ over the teachings of their chosen sect, they are saved. Salvation is not about believing what your church teaches, it is about surrendering to Christ and letting Him become Lord of your life. Salvation is about God, not churches.

Wow, you just continue to get flakier with every post. How do we know whether or not we actually HAVE "the Christ," rather than some distorted fabrication of Him? Given what Mormons believe and teach about Jesus Christ, it is clear to any informed Christian---Catholic OR Protestant---that the "Christ" that Mormons claim to follow is decidedly NOT the Jesus of the Christian faith. But you claim that by merely reciting a few words of Scripture as a sort of formulaic incantation---"I confess with my lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead!"---one must automatically be considered a Christian. However, if one has a false "Christ" to begin with, your assumption hardly holds water, does it. Indeed not.

 

[glassjester]

Ever take a close look at what Catholics believe?

:doh:

 

[CabinetMaker]

Unfortunately for your wholly sectarian assumption, your assertion here is itself nowhere taught in the Bible, and so merely refutes itself.

Its not an assumption, its a cold hard fact. If you don't agree then it should be an easy thing for you to point to something Christ actually said that ONLY appears in your chatichism. Can you do that?

The question is internally flawed, and so cannot be answered, since the Catholic Church is---by definition---not a "sect." Try again.

The RCC is a sect of Christianity. To calim otherwise is simply a tactic used by you to avoid dealing with inconvenient truths.

Yes. The New Testament makes it clear that to be saved one is to place faith in Christ and be baptized into the one historic Church that He Himself founded, submitting to her beliefs and teachings as articulated by His chosen apostles and bishops.

No, that is your chatichism's teaching, not the teaching of the Gospel or the New Testament.

You can begin to educate yourself HERE.

Mary is not my mother. Mary is not the mother that passage is refered to in that passage.

Exactly. That's what the ordained successors of the apostles have taught and, therefore, what Jesus Christ himself has taught (Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15).

No that is not what the RCC teaches, they teach primarily faith in their sect, not in good. You need look only at your witness on this board to see why one would reach that conclusion.

Amen. Catholics pray to the Father all the time.

Until that prayer is exclusively to the Father, you have a problem.

Try again.


Try again.

You get banned for posting links to Catholic propaganda. Discuss the topic in your own words or don't bother responding.

The Saints in heaven are more "alive" than you and I, having been freed of sin and in the direct presence of God Almighty. For example, Jesus himself had a conversation with two of them in the presence of some of his earthly disciples (Lk. 9:28-36).

And no place in scripture does anybody tell us to pray to the dearly departed from this Earth to intercede for us.

 

[Crucible]

The Catholic Church wants badly to be Reformed- they are mad because we have the grail of theology and struck them in the head with it

 

[CabinetMaker]

Wow, you just continue to get flakier with every post. How do we know whether or not we actually HAVE "the Christ," rather than some distorted fabrication of Him? Given what Mormons believe and teach about Jesus Christ, it is clear to any informed Christian---Catholic OR Protestant---that the "Christ" that Mormons claim to follow is decidedly NOT the Jesus of the Christian faith. But you claim that by merely reciting a few words of Scripture as a sort of formulaic incantation---"I confess with my lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in my heart that God raised him from the dead!"---one must automatically be considered a Christian. However, if one has a false "Christ" to begin with, your assumption hardly holds water, does it. Indeed not.

Which brings us back to where we started, who are you to judge what he understands Christ to be? Can you say with absolute certainty that he does not believe in Jesus because his church teaches weird stuff? Salvation is not about what church you attend, it is about a relationship with God. For some, they have that relationship in spite of what their church teaches. For others, all they have is what their church teaches.

For the record, I never said that a formulaic incantation would bring salvation. I would expect such a response from somebody who doesn't understand the difference between following a set of written rules and a confession of faith.

 

[Cruciform]

Its not an assumption, its a cold hard fact.

Categorically refuted HERE.

If you don't agree then it should be an easy thing for you to point to something Christ actually said that ONLY appears in your catechism. Can you do that?

Yes, there are plenty of things that Christ taught that are recorded in Tradition rather than explicitly in the Bible.

The RCC is a sect of Christianity.

You've been corrected on this point countless times on this forum. Your statement simply makes it plain that you have no idea what a "sect" actually is. Your ignorance, once again, is noted.

No, that is your catechism's teaching, not the teaching of the Gospel or the New Testament.

And THAT is simply the entirely non-authoritative opinion fed to you by your recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect. Try again.

Mary is not my mother. Mary is not the mother that passage is referred to in that passage.

See just above.

No that is not what the RCC teaches, they teach primarily faith in their sect, not in good. You need look only at your witness on this board to see why one would reach that conclusion.

Already answered.

Until that prayer is exclusively to the Father...

Commits the Question Begging Fallacy. Try again.

Discuss the topic in your own words or don't bother responding.

Let me know if you ever have any actual authority on this forum. :yawn:

And no place in scripture does anybody tell us to pray to the dearly departed from this Earth to intercede for us.

Categorically refuted HERE. Try again.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[Cruciform]

Which brings us back to where we started, who are you to judge what he understands Christ to be?

I'm a thinking Christian who is instructed by the Lord to follow the revealed truth of God as it resides in Christ's one historic Church (Mt. 28:18-20; Lk. 10:16; Ac. 15:2; 16:4; Rom. 16:17; 2 Thess. 3:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6), that is, to test the spirits according to the infallible teachings of the apostles and bishops appointed by Christ to guide and teach the faithful. By examining and evaluating the teachings of the Mormon faith and comparing them with the authoritative teachings of Christ's one historic church, I can know the spirit of truth from the spirit of error (1 Jn. 4:6). Mormonism teaches a false Christ, therefore Mormons cannot be considered "Christians." Q.E.D.

Can you say with absolute certainty that he does not believe in Jesus because his church teaches weird stuff?

If he believes Mormon teaching---which is assumed given that he identifies himself specifically and exclusively as a Mormon---then he is not a Christian. If he does not believe Mormon doctrine, then it's a bit puzzling why he's a Mormon in the first place. In any case, all we can know with certainty is that he considers himself a Mormon. From that it hardly follows that he must, therefore, believe in the TRUE Christ, does it. :doh:

For the record, I never said that a formulaic incantation would bring salvation. I would expect such a response from somebody who doesn't understand the difference between following a set of written rules and a confession of faith.

Then you'll need to try and make sense when you speak. A confession of faith means exactly nothing if one has the wrong "Christ," and refuses to accept the formal teachings delivered by the TRUE Christ through his one historic Church.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

 

[glassjester]

The Catholic Church wants badly to be Reformed- they are mad because we have the grail of theology and struck them in the head with it

Who is "we" ?

 

[Cruciform]

...we have the grail of theology and struck them in the head with it

Exactly what, in your opinion, is "the grail of theology"?

 

[glassjester]

Exactly what, in your opinion, is "the grail of theology"?

Good question.

I'm still very intrigued by this mysterious "we."

 

[Totton Linnet]

Questions or Comments?

You became angry with God...impatient. Now you are in the howling wilderness

 

[glassjester]

You became angry with God...impatient. Now you are in the howling wilderness

Is it possible for you to believe a false doctrine?

 

[Cruciform]

You became angry with God...impatient. Now you are in the howling wilderness

You are asleep and dreaming, imagining things in your slumber.

 

[Cruciform]

Still waiting for Crucible to tell us what "the grail of theology" is. :yawn:

 

[Totton Linnet]

Is it possible for you to believe a false doctrine?

Of COURSE it is...but Catholics have abdicated all personal responsibility onto a clergy class and follow their doctrines blindfold

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Of COURSE it is...but Catholics have abdicated all personal responsibility onto a clergy class and follow their doctrines blindfold

Just like the scribes and pharisees of Jesus' day...the uneducated working class just took their word for it.

They appeared holy and righteous. Surely, they won't lead us astray...

 

[glassjester]

Of COURSE it is...but Catholics have abdicated all personal responsibility onto a clergy class and follow their doctrines blindfold

Which doctrine do I blindly follow?

 

[Cruciform]

Of COURSE it is...but Catholics have abdicated all personal responsibility onto a clergy class and follow their doctrines blindfold

Straw Man Fallacy. Try again.