ECT WHY I DO NOT FOLLOW JESUS !!

[Ktoyou]

Why did Paul circumcise Timothy?

Don't be so silly, you get yourself banned again.

 

[God's Truth]

You made that up. Paul is preaching, "Faith without works saves."
Faith pleases God. Galatians 3:6 "Even as Abraham believed God,
and it was accounted to him for righteousness"

You're being a "false teacher" spreading a "false gospel."

Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for
he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a
rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

Every time Paul says faith and no works, it is CIRCUMCISION that is mentioned as the works, and that IS the ceremonial works.

 

[God's Truth]

Even if physical circumcision was no longer valid which it is not. This does not make all ceremonial laws invalid. Do you have any other scriptures that say there are no more ceremonial laws?

Circumcision is a ceremonial law.

Do you really not know we do not have to do the ceremonial works?

Which ceremonial works do you do?

 

[God's Truth]

Hi and in Gal 2:7 Paul was preaching "" THE UN-CIRCUMCISION GOSPEL ." as Paul never preached the " CIRCUMCISION " at all Eph 2:11 !!

DAN P

There is only one gospel.

Every time no works is mentioned circumcision is mentioned.

 

[God's Truth]

Most people do not see Romans 2:25. They gloss over it.

No one can obey the old law anymore, there is no temple, and you cannot stone people to death.

You are a law breaker of the old law.

 

[achduke]

No one can obey the old law anymore, there is no temple, and you cannot stone people to death.

You are a law breaker of the old law.

We are not justified by Law. We are justified by faith. Still as you say we should obey but you are picking and choosing what you get to obey. You are correct we have no physical temple but what about the rest of the laws? How do you justify what is a ceremonial law, moses law or moral law? Where is the scripture that defines all this?

 

[Interplanner]

Not justified by Law. We are justified by faith. Still as you say we should obey but you are picking and choosing what you get to obey. You are correct we have no physical temple but what about the rest of the laws? How do you justify what is a ceremonial law, moses law or moral law? Where is the scripture that defines all this?

It's not that difficult. This may be surprising to many, but the 10 commands are not that unique. See for ex., CS Lewis in THE ABOLITION OF MAN. He has an appendix on how widely the 10 commands exist all around the world.

But the relationship or covenant that was 'cut' after the Exodus was the business of mandating them on Israel along with the ceremonial and dietary laws. God had rescued them; they in turn would honor him by keeping these things, observances, seasons, restrictions, because they were his possession.

When you get to the NT and the apostles, you have Paul saying that the nations knew the law from God's separate communication of it; that's what Lewis was talking about. It is natural law. 2, you have Paul saying that the Law is over with; he's referring to the covenant arrangement and to the dietary and ceremonial law.

Then you have what the Reformation called the 3rd use of the Law. It was in Gal 4, and it is to guide a person to Christ, in the truly spiritual sense of the word. That is, it bothers the conscience and that bother should not lead to more effort to pay God back, but to the belief that Christ is the sufficient righteousness of God and sacrifice for sins. Some ceremonies may have done this (but Col 2 argues against that), and it doesn't really have anything to say about the common sense or natural law of the basic commands.

Jesus shortened the list of all law by saying there was just one--that a person care about those around them. Love is the fulfillment of the law (in the human behavior sense). We see this reinforced in I Thess 4 about sex. In v6 it turns out that what is really being violated in adultery is the command about coveting. An act of sexual coveting harms a brother.

Rabbi Dennis Prager (current) says there is basically one command: do not steal. He applies this to honoring God's name; it is theft to credit anything or anyone else for what God has created or given. It is theft to take another man's wife. It is theft not to worship, etc.

 

[Danoh]

Hi and I always use a KJV and I quote Robert C Brocks translation since he is a Pauline translator !!

Just because a person really is a Greek scholar , does not make him Pauline !!

I know that translations are more Transliteraltion and the KJV is NOT inspired and has many word not in there translation , so are KJV ONLY ?

Explain Acts 2:38 for me !!

dan p

Who said anything about Greek Scholars being Pauline?

I know I don't believe that.

And who said the KJV is inspired?

I know I don't hold to that.

By the same token, Brock's having been Pauline did not make him a Greek Scholar.

For that matter; no where even near the vast background of the 47 men - who mostly collated the various manuscripts into "the KJV" (for most of their translation work had already been done by Tyndale, et al).

While I am at it, from my limited experience with the KJVO issue, the issue is not really a Preservation issue, rather; an "end of the Refinement Process" question.

And what is it about Acts 2:38 you want me to explain to you? Be specific.

I hope you are not asking "what does it mean to" me.

As is obvious in this very thread, that gets nowhere.

One man's opinion versus another's is all that will result in more of.

 

[Danoh]

Hi and just great you SAY ??

#1 , Check the Greek text of Rom 1:4 !!

#2 , Then check Rom 1:4 and see if they agree !!

You can do it KJV-only !!

dan p

Pray, tell; what is wrong with what the KJV translation of Romans 1:4 results in as to intended sense?

What matters to me is the witness of other passages as to the intended sense of one another, anyway.

Please, lay out your issue; let's have a look see that we might continue to get nowhere on, lol.

Seriously, though, what exactly is your issue with the passage as translated?

You have got to know by now that many of these issues between people are far too often an argument as to whether a bottle is half empty or half full.

Lay it out; let's see if the bottle is your half full, or my half empty.

And then agree to disagree, because we both have something far better - the Lord.

You up for that kind of exploration - where, no matter our found difference, we decide to major in the Major and not in the minor?

 

[achduke]

I
When you get to the NT and the apostles, you have Paul saying that the nations knew the law from God's separate communication of it; that's what Lewis was talking about. It is natural law. 2, you have Paul saying that the Law is over with; he's referring to the covenant arrangement and to the dietary and ceremonial law.

I do not think we are under the law because the Spirit leads us to follow the law. If we have faith and have the Spirit of Christ being children of God then the Spirit guides us. Still there are a set of Laws that we should desire to obey and I do not think those have been abolished. Some of the Laws in the OT cannot be performed because of lack of a physical temple and a lack of priests to administer. Other laws only pertained to Men and still others to Women so those cannot be performed by everyone either. Feasts can be observed but in no way can there be a sacrifice since there are no Levite priests to administer the sacrifice. Food laws can still be followed for instance. In no way are we saved by the Law but those that are saved should have good fruit.

 

[God's Truth]

We are not justified by Law.

That means the old law with its ceremonial works to clean us does not clean us anymore.

You did not even know how the old law used to justify and what Jesus' blood does for us.

We are justified by faith.

We are justified by believing Jesus' blood cleans us.

Still as you say we should obey but you are picking and choosing what you get to obey.

That is exactly what you are doing.

You do that because you have no idea what Jesus fulfilling the Law and the Prophets mean.

You are correct we have no physical temple but what about the rest of the laws?

It is all or nothing.

We must obey everything. The whole law goes together.

How do you justify what is a ceremonial law,

The ceremonial laws are the law about making yourself clean before going to the temple to worship God. It is what makes a person clean and justified.

moses law or moral law? Where is the scripture that defines all this?

The whole old law goes together and must be followed exactly.

The moral law is about not doing evil.

The ceremonial law is about being made clean to be able to go to the temple where God's Spirit was. We are the temple now, and Jesus' blood cleaned us.

 

[God's Truth]

It's not that difficult. This may be surprising to many, but the 10 commands are not that unique. See for ex., CS Lewis in THE ABOLITION OF MAN. He has an appendix on how widely the 10 commands exist all around the world.

But the relationship or covenant that was 'cut' after the Exodus was the business of mandating them on Israel along with the ceremonial and dietary laws. God had rescued them; they in turn would honor him by keeping these things, observances, seasons, restrictions, because they were his possession.

When you get to the NT and the apostles, you have Paul saying that the nations knew the law from God's separate communication of it; that's what Lewis was talking about. It is natural law. 2, you have Paul saying that the Law is over with; he's referring to the covenant arrangement and to the dietary and ceremonial law.

Then you have what the Reformation called the 3rd use of the Law. It was in Gal 4, and it is to guide a person to Christ, in the truly spiritual sense of the word. That is, it bothers the conscience and that bother should not lead to more effort to pay God back, but to the belief that Christ is the sufficient righteousness of God and sacrifice for sins. Some ceremonies may have done this (but Col 2 argues against that), and it doesn't really have anything to say about the common sense or natural law of the basic commands.

Jesus shortened the list of all law by saying there was just one--that a person care about those around them. Love is the fulfillment of the law (in the human behavior sense). We see this reinforced in I Thess 4 about sex. In v6 it turns out that what is really being violated in adultery is the command about coveting. An act of sexual coveting harms a brother.

Love is not harming your neighbor that is how we love our neighbors, we do no harm to them.

If you do not harm your neighbor by not murdering your neighbor, it is good and you have obeyed a commandment of do not murder.

If you do not harm your neighbor by committing adultery with your neighbor's wife, then you have obeyed another commandment.

If you do not harm your neighbor so you do not bear false witness against your neighbor, you have done right and obeyed yet another command.

If you STEAL from your neighbor, you have HARMED your neighbor, AND NOW YOU ARE GUILTY OF BREAKING THE WHOLE ROYAL LAW OF LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

Rabbi Dennis Prager (current) says there is basically one command: do not steal. He applies this to honoring God's name; it is theft to credit anything or anyone else for what God has created or given. It is theft to take another man's wife. It is theft not to worship, etc.

Jesus says call no man Rabbi. Why do you call men 'Rabbi'?

 

[achduke]

That means the old law with its ceremonial works to clean us does not clean us anymore.

You did not even know how the old law used to justify and what Jesus' blood does for us.

I understand clean vs unclean.

We are justified by believing Jesus' blood cleans us.

That is faith. Believing is faith!

It is all or nothing.
We must obey everything. The whole law goes together.

It is only all or nothing if you are under the Law!

The ceremonial laws are the law about making yourself clean before going to the temple to worship God. It is what makes a person clean and justified.



The whole old law goes together and must be followed exactly.

The moral law is about not doing evil.

The ceremonial law is about being made clean to be able to go to the temple where God's Spirit was. We are the temple now, and Jesus' blood cleaned us.

I see what you mean about ceremonial clean laws, they do not apply because of no temple and priests but why are you grouping circumcision and food in with ceremonial? Circumcision was before the law was given at the mountain.

 

[God's Truth]

I understand clean vs unclean.


That is faith. Believing is faith!




It is only all or nothing if you are under the Law!



I see what you mean about ceremonial clean laws, they do not apply because of no temple and priests but why are you grouping circumcision and food in with ceremonial? Circumcision was before the law was given at the mountain.

The dietary law is about being separate from others and clean, as is circumcision.

 

[DAN P]

Pray, tell; what is wrong with what the KJV translation of Romans 1:4 results in as to intended sense?

What matters to me is the witness of other passages as to the intended sense of one another, anyway.

Please, lay out your issue; let's have a look see that we might continue to get nowhere on, lol.

Seriously, though, what exactly is your issue with the passage as translated?

You have got to know by now that many of these issues between people are far too often an argument as to whether a bottle is half empty or half full.

Lay it out; let's see if the bottle is your half full, or my half empty.

And then agree to disagree, because we both have something far better - the Lord.

You up for that kind of exploration - where, no matter our found difference, we decide to major in the Major and not in the minor?

Hi and the KJV in Rom 1:4 , ends like this , " by the resurrection from the dead ".

The Greek texts , resurrection of the dead , Jesus Christ ther Lord ." so doe you see the difference ??

This is why I use the KJV , but i AM not KJV-ONLY !!

DAN P

 

[Danoh]

Helen OF Troy was FROM Troy.

Helen FROM Troy was OF Troy.

The Word OF God is FROM God.

The Word FROM God is OF God.

Jesus OF Nazareth was FROM Nazareth.

Jesus FROM Nazareth was OF Nazareth.

The resurrection OF the dead is FROM the dead.

The resurrection FROM the dead is OF the dead.

Next!

 

[DAN P]

Helen OF Troy was FROM Troy.

Helen FROM Troy was OF Troy.

The Word OF God is FROM God.

The Word FROM God is OF God.

Jesus OF Nazareth was FROM Nazareth.

Jesus FROM Nazareth was OF Nazareth.

The resurrection OF the dead is FROM the dead.

The resurrection FROM the dead is OF the dead.

Next!

Hi and you know some KJV -ONLY dispensationalists are in Chicago area and also in California !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi and you know some KJV -ONLY dispensationalists are in Chicago area and also in California !!

dan p

And KJVO Mads are also in Indiana, and Kentucky, and Wisconsin, and Washington, and Texas, and Tennessee, and Georgia, and...

And in England, and in India, and in the Philippians, and in...

And many other Mads are not KJVO.

And the Mad KJVO position is not the same as the Baptist KJVO position.

And most who hold to one form of Mad or aother on TOL are NOT KJVO...

And so on, and so forth...

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

TOL KJB MAD Wackos:

STP- NC
saint john w, the great- Texas
heir- Michigan

 

[andyc]

so you believe Paul followed Jesus perfectly.

You seem to honor Paul the same as Jesus.

why do you have the need to follow Paul when Jesus gave us perfect teachings how to love God and love on another?

They don't follow Jesus because they're not his disciples. That'll make the judgement quick and easy.I think MAD is the dumbest sect I've ever run into, and even the acronym couldn't be more appropriate.

They don't follow Jesus, claim not to be his disciples, and call themselves mad. They might just as well call their theology "the broad road to destruction".