Unconditional Election: Is it True?

[Jerry Shugart]

I love that verse. However it says nothing about believing not being a work.

To those with the slightest degree of spiritual discernment it is clear that Paul is placing "believing" in the category of not working:

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:5).​

All you prove over and over is the fact that the Bible is not your final authority and Calvinism is.

 

[JudgeRightly]

A lost person cannot believe the Gospel because it's hid to the lost 2Cor 4:3

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

Do you assert that the Gospel is incapable of bringing the lost to Christ?

 

[beloved57]

To those with the slightest degree of spiritual discernment it is clear that Paul is placing "believing" in the category of not working:

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:5).​

All you prove over and over is the fact that the Bible is not your final authority and Calvinism is.

I repeat I love that verse but where does it say that believing is not something you do?

 

[ttruscott]

So is believing the gospel something of merit?

Not for sinners living as human, no, but for non-sinners BEFORE they had chosen become sinful by rebellion, yes, faith in HIS claims to be our GOD and all salvation from sin was only found in the Son was of the highest merit.

All the sons of GOD saw HIS glory when HE created the physical universe, Job 38:7, so we preceded the foundation of the world. Every creature under heaven has already heard and made a decision about the truthfulness of the gospel, Col 1:23 which can only be true if we heard it in heaven before the creation of the physical universe. Those people who believed the gospel from YHWH was the truth became HIS ELECT, chosen to be HIS bride and promised salvation for all sin BEFORE the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4, while the rest, the unbelievers, were passed over for election for having chosen the unforgivable sin making them eternally unsuitable to be HIS bride, fit only for damnation. Satan faced GOD's justice AFTER the physical creation of the world when he lured 1/3 of the elect into sin by standing against GOD's call for the damnation of those who rejected the truth of HIS gospel and all sinners were hurled to the earth to be born as men in their time, Matt 13:36-29.

 

[Nanja]

A lost person cannot believe the Gospel because it's hid to the lost 2Cor 4:3

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

100% correct Brother !

 

[beloved57]

100% correct Brother !

Amen Sister

 

[7djengo7]

7d



Because believing is something you do .

The fact that believing is something one does does not make believing a work. Notice that you have not backed up (because you cannot back up) your claim from the Bible.

Anything a person does is considered a work!

Well, obviously--considered.....by you, and maybe a few other works-salvation errorists. But therein, you consider wrongly. Not every thing a person does is a work.

It's funny, though, that you just told me that you consider sleeping, breathing, sneezing, coughing, and getting bitten by a poodle to be works. You're a great comedian. Judging from the literary caliber of your posts, I'd not be surprised were I to learn, also, that you consider belching to be, not only a work, but a work of art!

 

[beloved57]

The fact that believing is something one does does not make believing a work. Notice that you have not backed up (because you cannot back up) your claim from the Bible.



Well, obviously--considered.....by you, and maybe a few other works-salvation errorists. But therein, you consider wrongly. Not every thing a person does is a work.

It's funny, though, that you just told me that you consider sleeping, breathing, sneezing, coughing, and getting bitten by a poodle to be works. You're a great comedian. Judging from the literary caliber of your posts, I'd not be surprised were I to learn, also, that you consider belching to be, not only a work, but a work of art!

Yes it does make it a work! Anything you do can be classified as a work.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Yes it does make it a work! Anything you do can be classified as a work.

Stomping your foot and repeating your claim doesn't magically make it come true, B57.

 

[7djengo7]

Yes it does make it a work!

You've already asserted that falsehood, repeatedly. You've not argued it, of course, because, as you and I both well know, you can't argue it. All you can do is keep asserting it. If you thought you could argue it from the Bible, you'd try to do so, but you and I both know that the Bible's never going to back you up on it.

Anything you do can be classified as a work.

Yeah, doy. You already said that, and I already acknowledged that you said that, and that it is true. But many things you do can be classified as a work only erroneously, by errorists such as yourself. It is exactly one of the errors in which you persist. Anything you do can be classified as a work, but not everything you do is, or can be a work. Some things you do--like tripping on your shoelace--are not works, and can only be classified as such in error.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yes it does make it a work! Anything you do can be classified as a work.

If faith is a work then no one can be saved apart from works:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

A lost person cannot believe the Gospel because it's hid to the lost 2Cor 4:3

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

"And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor.4:3-4).​

The reason the god of this world blinds the mind of those who are perishing is so they cannot see the light of the gospel. That means even those who are perishing could be saved if they were not blinded by the god of this world.

That proves that all men have the ability to believe the gospel!

That alone proves that Calvinism is in error because that false teaching asserts that only some people have the ability to believe the gospel.

​

 

[beloved57]

"And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor.4:3-4).​

The reason the god of this world blinds the mind of those who are perishing is so they cannot see the light of the gospel. That means even those who are perishing could be saved if they were not blinded by the god of this world.

That proves that all men have the ability to believe the gospel!

That alone proves that Calvinism is in error because that false teaching asserts that only some people have the ability to believe the gospel.

​

Men are naturally blind and lost that's why the need to be born again until then we are lost and blind and gospel is hidden from you

 

[beloved57]

If faith is a work then no one can be saved apart from works:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

Yes believing is a work and men are saved by Grace apart from works.

 

[beloved57]

You've already asserted that falsehood, repeatedly. You've not argued it, of course, because, as you and I both well know, you can't argue it. All you can do is keep asserting it. If you thought you could argue it from the Bible, you'd try to do so, but you and I both know that the Bible's never going to back you up on it.



Yeah, doy. You already said that, and I already acknowledged that you said that, and that it is true. But many things you do can be classified as a work only erroneously, by errorists such as yourself. It is exactly one of the errors in which you persist. Anything you do can be classified as a work, but not everything you do is, or can be a work. Some things you do--like tripping on your shoelace--are not works, and can only be classified as such in error.

I did a thread on the subject so it doesn't matter what you talking about. Believing is a action verb hence a work!

 

[JudgeRightly]

Men are naturally blind and lost

False statement not found in scripture.

Men are not naturally from birth blind or lost. They are born alive to God, and it's only through rebellion that one is separated from God, and continued rebellion that causes men to go blind and deaf to God's still small voice.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I did a thread on the subject so it doesn't matter what you talking about. Believing is a action verb hence a work!

A state of being is not an action.

 

[7djengo7]

I did a thread on the subject so it doesn't matter what you talking about.

LOL

I'm sure your "thread on the subject" can be found in the same place the Pulitzer Prize you won for it can be found.

Believing is a action verb hence a work!

Believing is not a verb. Believing is not even a word. The word, 'believing', is a word, but it is a participle, and not a verb. Neither believing, nor the word, 'believing', is a work. And your use of the word, 'hence', only goes to draw attention to your non sequitur.

 

[beloved57]

LOL

I'm sure your "thread on the subject" can be found in the same place the Pulitzer Prize you won for it can be found.



Believing is not a verb. Believing is not even a word. The word, 'believing', is a word, but it is a participle, and not a verb. Neither believing, nor the word, 'believing', is a work. And your use of the word, 'hence', only goes to draw attention to your non sequitur.

Lol what ever you say!