Unconditional Election: Is it True?

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Calvinist R. C. Sproul wrote that "In the acrostic TULIP the U refers to 'unconditional election.'..The term 'unconditional' simply means 'with no conditions attached, either foreseen otherwise.'...the grounds of our election are not something foreseen by God in us but rather the good pleasure of his sovereign will."

When we look at the following two verses we can see that those elected to salvation are chosen because of their faith:

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet.1:2; KJV).

"But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth" (2 Thess.2:13).​
 

thborn

New member
I've heard an evangelical preacher say that foreknowing doesn't just mean God knows what Believers are going to do, but that He has also cherished them from the beginning.
Relating to the verse from Thessalonians, it's been said that this sanctification comes distinctly before belief; it is listed here before belief.
Elsewhere I've heard it said that God's election and fashioning of individuals is a bit of a mystery. That there's not too much we can or should say about the details.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Relating to the verse from Thessalonians, it's been said that this sanctification comes distinctly before belief; it is listed here before belief.

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet.1:2).​


The "sanctification of the Spirit" is the same "sanctification" spoken of by the Apostle Paul is the following verse:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours" (1Cor.1:2).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "sanctified" means "to separate from profane things and dedicate to God."

In The Expositor's Bible Commentary we read the following about the meaning of the Greek word translated "sanctify" at 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"The word 'sanctify' bears here a somewhat different meaning from that which we commonly attach to it. It means rather that which is set apart or destined to holy uses than that which has been made holy. It is in this meaning the word is used by our Lord when He says, 'For your sakes I sanctify'-or set apart-' Myself.' The Church by its very existence is a body of men and women set apart for a holy use."

It is by the baptism performed by the Holy Spirit whereby "individual" believers are made members of the Body of Christ:

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit." (1 Cor.12:13).​

Therefore, we can understand that the following verse is speaking about how the LORD elects believers and that is through the sanctification of the Spirit. In other words, a person is elected by being baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit:

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet.1:2; KJV).​

The following words are also speaking of the "sanctification of the Spirit" and Paul adds an additional element that is essential to the LORD's election:

"But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth" (2 Thess.2:13).​

"Belief in the truth"!
 

thborn

New member
It is by the baptism performed by the Holy Spirit whereby "individual" believers are made members of the Body of Christ:

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit." (1 Cor.12:13).​

Therefore, we can understand that the following verse is speaking about how the LORD elects believers and that is through the sanctification of the Spirit. In other words, a person is elected by being baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit:

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet.1:2; KJV).​

The following words are also speaking of the "sanctification of the Spirit" and Paul adds an additional element that is essential to the LORD's election:

"But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth" (2 Thess.2:13).​

"Belief in the truth"!

If I meet someone who has never professed belief in Christ, and they are not acting remotely like a Christian, I can say they are not or not yet baptized into the Body of Christ to my knowledge and my limited human sense of time and chronology and the universe. But to God they might very well be justified and sanctified, according to His eternal and absolute sense.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
If I meet someone who has never professed belief in Christ, and they are not acting remotely like a Christian, I can say they are not or not yet baptized into the Body of Christ to my knowledge and my limited human sense of time and chronology and the universe. But to God they might very well be justified and sanctified, according to His eternal and absolute sense.

So? What is your point?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
J's
When we look at the following two verses we can see that those elected to salvation are chosen because of their faith:

Not one scripture says that men are elected because of their faith. You made that up.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Thborn

I've heard an evangelical preacher say that foreknowing doesn't just mean God knows what Believers are going to do, but that He has also cherished them from the beginning

Yes foreknowledge of a person has to do with God knowing that person intimately in love, nothing to do with their actions. Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Relating to the verse from Thessalonians, it's been said that this sanctification comes distinctly before belief; it is listed here before belief.

Exactly. Belief of the truth here is the result of sanctification of the Spirit.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
How do you define sanctification of the Spirit?

By Sanctification of the Spirit, a setting apart, an inward work and Sovereign work of the Spirit. In fact I believe its the New Birth. And it comes prior to belief of the truth which is faith !
 

ttruscott

Well-known member
Calvinist R. C. Sproul wrote that "In the acrostic TULIP the U refers to 'unconditional election.'..The term 'unconditional' simply means 'with no conditions attached, either foreseen otherwise.'...the grounds of our election are not something foreseen by God in us but rather the good pleasure of his sovereign will."

This contention that our election was unmerited by anything found in us implies absolutely that there was no dismerit found in those passed over for election. Election refers to HIS promise of salvation for sinners which means that anyone condemned cannot have once been an elect under HIS promise of salvation from sin but must have been passed over for election.

Published elsewhere:
Where is your verse that states the opposite of UE?
Every verse that states or implies our GOD is loving, righteous and just.

1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the ELECT angels. Since there are elect angels we can assume that the demonic angels were passed over for election or not considered for election. Angels do not presumably have any racial solidarity, ie, they all are holy or sinful by their own choice, not by anyone else's choice. So now we have to answer the question: were some elected before or after the fall of the Satanic rebellion?

IF they were elected / chosen before the fall then there is no stated reason for the non-election of the others. Unmerited election then also means unmerited non-election, ie, for no lack of merit at all some were passed over for salvation and NOT chosen to be saved if they should ever sin.

What can we make of such a supposition? Can we say it is loving? Righteous? Just? The best we can say is HE is sovereign and if HE chose this way then who are you to argue, which is not a real answer at all. Why teach us HE is loving, righteous and just if it has no meaning in the biggest question in their existence: Why were some passed over for election?!!

It is entirely possible that the decision for some to receive unmerited election and others to receive unmerited rejection for election with no indication that this decision was loving, righteous or just could have precipitated the Satanic war in heaven for NOT BEING loving, righteous or just so they committed themselves to war, putting their faith in the belief that YHWH was a false god and a liar, unworthy of being their GOD.

This is what 'unconditional' implies. It implies 'no reason', not just an 'unknown reason' because if there was a reason there would be merit by being on the side of the reason. Unconditional election means they were just as acceptable for election as everyone but did not receive it....that is what 'without merit' also means! That does NOT sound like my GOD at all. IF they were passed over for a evil they did then there is merit to the election of those that were not passed over but who got the promise of election because they did not do that evil!!

BUT, if election was a response to the Satanic rebellion to reward those angels who did not rebel and to pass over those angels who did rebel and condemn them on the spot, then merit makes sense. Their rebellion to the command to put their faith in the Son and to love one another which they heard in the beginning* is the reason they were passed over to be HIS Bride. The choice by some to accept HIM as their GOD and to put their faith in in HIS Son was the reason they were elected based upon the merit of this choice to obey the commandment.

*[1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

1 John 3:8 ...for the devil sinneth from the beginning. Jamieson, Fausset and Brown's commentary(#27) says: “sinneth from the beginning - from the time that sin began; from the time that he became what he is, the devil.”

1 John 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. I believe that John is referring to the loving purpose GOD has for each of us: 1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.]

Thus we probably have a precedent for election being based upon merit and proper free will decisions being the condition of being elected. And since unconditional election is false in the first people elected, I strongly suggest that it is wrongly used for sinful men who were also elected before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4, you know: at the beginning, the time of the Satanic fall.

Unconditional election means they non-elect were just as acceptable for election as everyone but did not receive it!
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
By Sanctification of the Spirit, a setting apart, an inward work and Sovereign work of the Spirit. In fact I believe its the New Birth. And it comes prior to belief of the truth which is faith !

Here is what is said about the New Birth and it completely destroys your idea that it comes prior to belief:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23, 25).

"He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).​

According to your strange ideas a person can be sanctified by the Spirit but has not yet had his sins taken away, which only happens when one believes:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).​
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Here is what is said about the New Birth and it completely destroys your idea that it comes prior to belief:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23, 25).

"He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).​

According to your strange ideas a person can be sanctified by the Spirit but has not yet had his sins taken away, which only happens when one believes:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).​

I'm not chasing all your unbeiief. Sanctification of the Spirit precedes faith 2 These 2:13 it is clear
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I'm not chasing all your unbeiief. Sanctification of the Spirit precedes faith 2 These 2:13 it is clear

In other words, you refuse to believe that the new birth comes about as a result of believing:

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23, 25).

"He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).​

Your final authority is not the Bible but instead Calvinism.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
In other words, you refuse to believe that the new birth comes about as a result of believing:

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23, 25).

"He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:18).​

Your final authority is not the Bible but instead Calvinism.

2 Thess 2:13 is the scripture!
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
2 Thess 2:13 is the scripture!

That verse speaks of the "sanctification of the Spirit."

According to your ideas a person is sanctified by the Spirit before he believes and has his sins taken away:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).​


Imagine that! A person is sanctified by the Spirit but yet he remains in his sins. You are really confused!
 

beloved57

Well-known member
That verse speaks of the "sanctification of the Spirit."

According to your ideas a person is sanctified by the Spirit before he believes and has his sins taken away:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).​


Imagine that! A person is sanctified by the Spirit but yet he remains in his sins. You are really confused!

Yes sanctification of the Spirit. A Sovereign Work of the Spirit comes before believing the truth!
 
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