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THE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL

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  • #91
    Originally posted by turbosixx View Post
    From 1 Pt. 1:3 he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

    Can we experience this now?
    Did you read that entire chapter?

    Peter was expecting their salvation in the future:

    1Pe 1:5 KJV Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    That salvation is the same one mentioned in Luke:

    Luk 1:67-79 KJV And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, (68) Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, (69) And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; (70) As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: (71) That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; (72) To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; (73) The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, (74) That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, (75) In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. (76) And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; (77) To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, (78) Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, (79) To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Originally posted by Squeaky
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Originally posted by God's Truth
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by DougE View Post
      Hello
      The kingdom is not being offered to Israel now, Gentile and Jew are saved freely by faith in the redemption found in Christ in this dispensation of grace.
      I agree with the underlined part of your statement.

      So my question to you is, under this dispensation of grace do Jews have an option? Can they wait for the promised "earthly" kingdom or obey the gospel of grace? What if they choose not to obey the gospel of grace?


      As far as the non-underlined part of your statement. You still haven't pointed to where the 12 offered the kingdom to Israel (the people).

      Thanks
      Wretched man that I am.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by turbosixx View Post
        I agree with the underlined part of your statement.

        So my question to you is, under this dispensation of grace do Jews have an option? Can they wait for the promised "earthly" kingdom or obey the gospel of grace? What if they choose not to obey the gospel of grace?


        As far as the non-underlined part of your statement. You still haven't pointed to where the 12 offered the kingdom to Israel (the people).

        Thanks
        Hello

        The gospel of the kingdom is not to be preached today. Jew and Gentile must believe the gospel of Christ.

        The gospel of the kingdom that was preached was the offer to the people.....they had to believe it.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by DougE View Post
          The gospel of the kingdom that was preached was the offer to the people.....they had to believe it.
          Many did believe, did they receive the kingdom?

          Jn. 7:31 Yet many of the people believed in him. They said, “When the Christ appears, will he do more signs than this man has done?”
          Jn. 8:30 As he was saying these things, many believed in him.
          Jn. 10:42 And many believed in him there.
          Jn. 11:45 Many of the Jews therefore, who had come with Mary and had seen what he did, believed in him, 46 but some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done. 47 So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the council and said, “What are we to do? For this man performs many signs. 48 If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.”
          Jn. 12:42 Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue;
          Wretched man that I am.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by turbosixx View Post
            Many did believe, did they receive the kingdom?

            Jn. 7:31 Yet many of the people believed in him. They said, “When the Christ appears, will he do more signs than this man has done?”
            Jn. 8:30 As he was saying these things, many believed in him.
            Jn. 10:42 And many believed in him there.
            Jn. 11:45 Many of the Jews therefore, who had come with Mary and had seen what he did, believed in him, 46 but some of them went to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done. 47 So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the council and said, “What are we to do? For this man performs many signs. 48 If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.”
            Jn. 12:42 Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue;
            Hello
            Israel as a nation rejected Jesus (Acts 13:46) and the kingdom postponed by the dispensation of grace (Ephesians 3:2). They will receive the kingdom at the Lord's coming (Luke 13:29 1 Peter 1:7).

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by DougE View Post
              Israel as a nation
              So you're telling me that all the many people that believed were denied because every single one didn't believe?

              What makes someone a Jew?
              Wretched man that I am.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by turbosixx View Post

                So my question to you is, under this dispensation of grace do Jews have an option? Can they wait for the promised "earthly" kingdom or obey the gospel of grace? What if they choose not to obey the gospel of grace?
                In this dispensation of grace there are only two options for both Jew and Gentile alike.. receive the free gift of salvation through faith in the finished work of Christ for justification before GOD or be eternally lost.


                As far as the non-underlined part of your statement. You still haven't pointed to where the 12 offered the kingdom to Israel (the people).

                Thanks
                Offered:

                Act 3:12........ Ye men of Israel,.......
                Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
                Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
                Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
                Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
                Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

                Comment


                • #98
                  I've seen you following and was wondering if you would join in. Thanks for your input on the kingdom being offered.

                  Originally posted by steko View Post
                  In this dispensation of grace there are only two options for both Jew and Gentile alike.. receive the free gift of salvation through faith in the finished work of Christ for justification before GOD or be eternally lost.
                  Agreed.




                  Originally posted by steko View Post
                  Offered:

                  Act 3:12........ Ye men of Israel,.......
                  Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
                  Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
                  Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
                  Would you say this is the same message as Acts 2?

                  Paul went around preaching repentance to Jew and Gentile from the very beginning.
                  Acts 26:20 but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

                  In 3:19, what do you make of "be converted"?
                  Wretched man that I am.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by DougE View Post
                    James was addressing the twelve tribes of Israel which were scattered abroad during the persecution of Acts 8 and also will be in the tribulation. It is not addressed to the body of Christ, but rather the believing remnant of Israel, the church of God which Paul persecuted.
                    Note that the body of Christ is the Church (Colossians 1:18). And the body of Christ will be in the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For there are no believers in Jesus Christ outside of the body (Ephesians 4:4-6), and there will be believers in Jesus Christ in the Tribulation (Revelation 14:12).

                    Originally posted by DougE View Post
                    The church the Body of Christ is not grafted into Israel.
                    Note that it is, for just as all Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, are individual branches in the vine which is Jesus Christ (John 15:5), the only way to salvation (John 14:6, Acts 4:12), so all Christians, whether Jews or Gentiles, are individual branches in the good olive tree of Israel, the Jews' own tree (Romans 11:17,24, Jeremiah 11:16-17). For all Jewish Christians remain part of Israel (Romans 11:1) as the natural branches in the tree of Israel (Romans 11:24). And all Gentile Christians have been grafted as branches from a wild olive tree into the tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29) so that they can partake of the salvation of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15) which God has made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). This does not mean that a wild branch becomes a natural branch, that a Gentile Christian becomes a genetic Jew, but that Gentile Christians, even while remaining branches from a wild olive tree, even while remaining genetic Gentiles, are still grafted in to become part of the good olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24).

                    Originally posted by DougE View Post
                    We can not lose salvation; we have been justified (Romans 3:21-28) without the law and works (Titus 3:5).
                    Note that we can lose salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29), because whereas we have been initially justified without the law and works (Romans 4:1-5), our ultimate salvation will depend on our works (Romans 2:6-8).

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DougE View Post
                      Revelation 21:9 speaks of the bride which is the new Jerusalem not the body (Revelation 21:10).
                      Note that Revelation 21:12 refers to Israel's twelve tribes in its description of the bride of Christ in Revelation 21:9. And the bride of Christ is the body of Christ (Ephesians 5:30-32; 2 Corinthians 11:2).

                      Revelation 21:2,9-10 means that the physical structure of the literal city of New Jerusalem in heaven is a picture of the body. Something can be literal and at the same time symbolically picture something else. For example, in Matthew 21:19 the fig tree was literal and at the same time its being without fruit pictured unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel being without spiritual fruit in Matthew 21:43.

                      Just as New Jerusalem's literal wall foundations have the names of the twelve apostles on them (Revelation 21:14), so the body's foundation is the apostles (Ephesians 2:20). And just as New Jerusalem's literal pearly gates have the names of Israel's twelve tribes on them (Revelation 21:12,21), so the body consists of Israel's twelve tribes (e.g. James 1:1).

                      New Jerusalem is a literal city, 1,500 miles cubed (Revelation 21:16), with literal pearly gates and literal streets of gold (Revelation 21:21). It is God the Father's house in the third heaven (Revelation 21:2-3, cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2b,4, Revelation 2:7b, Revelation 22:2,14), in which house Jesus Christ left to prepare a place for His body (John 14:2). All those in His body, whether Jews or Gentiles, have figuratively come to New Jerusalem by coming under the New Covenant (Hebrews 12:22-24, Galatians 4:24-26), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34), and which only His body comes under by believing in Jesus' New Covenant suffering and death on the Cross for our sins (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), the very heart of the Gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

                      The body looks for Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming, from heaven (Philippians 3:20), and His setting up of the physical aspect of His Kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected body (Church) of Christ (of all times) for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), a time period commonly called the Millennium. New Jerusalem will not descend from the third heaven to the earth until after the future, New Earth, as in a new surface for the earth, has been created (Revelation 21:1-4), sometime after the future Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15). The body (Church) of Christ will physically live and reign in New Jerusalem with God the Father and Jesus on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5). The Father and Jesus themselves will be the only temple in New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:22).

                      Originally posted by DougE View Post
                      1 Peter 2:9-10 refers to the believing remnant of Israel not the body (Exodus 19:5-6 Revelation 5:10).
                      1 Peter 2:9-10 is referring to the body of Christ as Israel, for it is quoting from Exodus 19:5b-6 and Hosea 2:23, which refer to Israel.

                      For 1 Peter 2:9 refers to those in the body, who will reign with Jesus Christ as kings and priests on the earth during the future Millennium (Revelation 5:9-10, Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).

                      Originally posted by DougE View Post
                      The body is not under the new covenant.
                      Note that the body is only saved by the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6; 1 Corinthians 11:25, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15) which God has made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b).

                      Originally posted by DougE View Post
                      Which verse says a Christian is made a member of any tribe of Israel.
                      Note that if even those who are "strangers" in Israel can be considered to be members of the various tribes of Israel, to the point where they can even inherit the land of the tribes (Ezekiel 47:21-23), then certainly Christian Gentiles, who are "no more strangers" to Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19), are considered by God to be grafted into the various tribes of Israel when they are grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DougE View Post

                        The twelve Apostles were not preaching the same gospel as Paul, but rather the gospel of the kingdom, which Paul never preached.
                        Junk theology
                        Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

                        It is true that Trump does not fit modern Republican principles, but that is because modern Republican principles have strayed far from conservatism. genuineoriginal

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by George Affleck View Post
                          Junk theology
                          Poor confused George.
                          All of my ancestors are human.
                          Originally posted by Squeaky
                          That explains why your an idiot.
                          Originally posted by God's Truth
                          Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                          Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                          (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                          1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                          (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                          Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by turbosixx View Post
                            So you're telling me that all the many people that believed were denied because every single one didn't believe?

                            What makes someone a Jew?
                            Hello
                            Romans 2:29 defines a Jew

                            All Israel will be saved Romans 11:26

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DougE View Post
                              Hello
                              Romans 2:29 defines a Jew
                              In what WAY does it do so?
                              All of my ancestors are human.
                              Originally posted by Squeaky
                              That explains why your an idiot.
                              Originally posted by God's Truth
                              Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                              Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                              1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                              (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                              Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by George Affleck View Post
                                Junk theology
                                Saying it doesn't make it so.

                                Comment

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