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THE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE SAME GOSPEL

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  • God's Truth
    replied

    Jesus' words are life for EVERYONE the same.

    John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

    Romans 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,

    Romans 2:11 For God does not show favoritism.

    Romans 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
    13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
    14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,…

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  • Theo102
    replied
    Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
    How do you get that means 'but not for the Gentiles'?
    The word gentiles is a translation of goyim, which means multitude.

    As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations (goyim).
    Genesis 17:4

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  • God's Truth
    replied
    2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again, my God may humiliate me before you, and I will grieve for many of those who previously sinned and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and licentiousness that they have practiced.


    Paul is afraid that some of the Corinthians didn't repent of their sins and aren't saved.

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  • Theo102
    replied
    Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
    God commanded the sacrifice of animals for the people who were in the covenant with Him.
    Burnt offerings to YHWH from the people were voluntary:

    And YHWH called unto Moses, and spake unto him out of the tabernacle of the congregation, saying,
    Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man of you bring an offering unto YHWH, ye shall bring your offering of the cattle, even of the herd, and of the flock.
    If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before YHWH.
    Leviticus 1:1-3

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  • God's Truth
    replied
    When Jesus walked the earth he says to repent of sins (Luke 13:5); Jesus says if you obey my teachings you will be saved (Matthew 6:14, Matthew 6:15, John 8:31, John 13:17, John 15:10, John 15:14).

    In addition, the disciples after having received the Holy Spirit, they CONTINUED to preach that the people should believe AND REPENT of their sins and call on Jesus' name (Acts 2:38, Acts 5:31, Luke 24:47, Acts 3:19,) and, even PAUL HIMSELF PREACHED REPENT of SINS (Acts 17:30; Acts 20:21, Acts 26:20, 2 Corinthians 12:21).

    When Jesus died, rose again, and ascended to heaven, he taught to obey and repent of sins, Revelation 3:3, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 2:5, Revelation 3:19, Revelation 9:20,21,Revelation 16:10, 11.

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  • God's Truth
    replied
    If the only thing the jailer Paul spoke to had to do is believe and nothing else, why did he ask what he had to do and why then was he water baptized with the baptism of repentance?

    In Acts 2:37 those to whom Peter preached responded by asking, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

    Why did Peter say, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    That is two different times now you see that people asked what should they do and they repented as was evident by their water baptism.

    In addition, we see that after Paul believed he was baptized with the baptism of repentance (Acts 9:18); as were the Samaritans (Acts 8:12); the Ethiopian (Acts 8:35-39); Cornelius (Acts 10:47-48) and Crispus (Acts 18:8).

    Same one and only gospel that saves preached by all and to all.

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  • God's Truth
    replied
    Originally posted by Theo102 View Post

    Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
    Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith YHWH:
    But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith YHWH, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.

    Jeremiah 31:31-33
    God said that to the people who were in covenant with Him.

    How do you get that means 'but not for the Gentiles'?

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  • God's Truth
    replied
    Originally posted by Theo102 View Post
    That would depend on whether on not what you had faith in was consistent with those ideals.


    Ignoring text that doesn't agree with your beliefs is a lot like cherry-picking the facts that don't disrupt your model of the world. It's not a great strategy if you want to be rational about it.


    In the original context of the covenant the blood was symbolic, and sacrifice was repudiated by several of the prophets:

    But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
    Matthew 9:13

    For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of Elohim more than burnt offerings.
    Hosea 6:6

    For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
    Psalm 51:16

    Will YHWH be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
    Micah 6:7


    You're welcome.


    Fair enough. I think it's always better to follow where the evidence leads.


    May your path be a narrow one.
    God commanded the sacrifice of animals for the people who were in the covenant with Him.

    God did not like it though that a person could sin, give a sin offering, but not really be sorry for their sins.

    God said He would make a new covenant one day where HE would purify us, instead of the people using animals to purify themselves.

    Jesus is the last sacrifice once and for all.

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  • God's Truth
    replied
    Same one and only gospel that saves taught by Jesus and is for everyone forever.

    Just imagine telling someone who is reading Jesus' words in the Bible that it is not the good news because Paul has a better news.

    Imagine telling someone that Jesus' words aren't for your salvation.

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  • Theo102
    replied
    Originally posted by thborn View Post
    Salvation by faith does not exclude ideals of justice and perfection and a deep theology; in fact, in the proper teaching, it supports justice and perfection.
    That would depend on whether on not what you had faith in was consistent with those ideals.

    Originally posted by thborn View Post
    However, there are those who do seek to ignore vast sections of holy scripture and a call to holiness which seem to me to be essential to the central message of faith in Jesus. Perhaps this sort of thinking has pushed you in a certain direction?
    Ignoring text that doesn't agree with your beliefs is a lot like cherry-picking the facts that don't disrupt your model of the world. It's not a great strategy if you want to be rational about it.

    Originally posted by thborn View Post
    Undoubtedly, Jesus' offering up of His Blood and His sacrifice have great resonance in terms of the covenantal (is that a word? I thought it was) language of the Bible.
    In the original context of the covenant the blood was symbolic, and sacrifice was repudiated by several of the prophets:

    But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
    Matthew 9:13

    For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of Elohim more than burnt offerings.
    Hosea 6:6

    For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
    Psalm 51:16

    Will YHWH be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
    Micah 6:7

    Originally posted by thborn View Post
    Thanks for the scripture passages above and giving me the opportunity to familiarize myself with these. Got to get back to my New Testament tonight or tomorrow.
    You're welcome.

    Originally posted by thborn View Post
    I feel that the line you are taking is quite divisive, and divisions can be a grave matter, but I will hold back for now.
    Fair enough. I think it's always better to follow where the evidence leads.

    Originally posted by thborn View Post
    May God bless you.
    May your path be a narrow one.

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  • thborn
    replied
    Originally posted by Theo102 View Post
    It doesn't disagree with what you wrote. What I'm looking at is the difference between a faith-based approach to salvation and a theologicial approach, particularly regarding the ideals of justice and perfection which are present in the sermon on the mount.
    Salvation by faith does not exclude ideals of justice and perfection and a deep theology; in fact, in the proper teaching, it supports justice and perfection.

    However, there are those who do seek to ignore vast sections of holy scripture and a call to holiness which seem to me to be essential to the central message of faith in Jesus. Perhaps this sort of thinking has pushed you in a certain direction?

    Undoubtedly, Jesus' offering up of His Blood and His sacrifice have great resonance in terms of the covenantal (is that a word? I thought it was) language of the Bible.

    Thanks for the scripture passages above and giving me the opportunity to familiarize myself with these. Got to get back to my New Testament tonight or tomorrow.

    I feel that the line you are taking is quite divisive, and divisions can be a grave matter, but I will hold back for now.

    May God bless you.

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  • Theo102
    replied
    Originally posted by thborn View Post
    I'm not sure where you're going with this, but please explain more. Do you mean that Matthew 5:48 "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect" does not agree with what I wrote above?
    It doesn't disagree with what you wrote. What I'm looking at is the difference between a faith-based approach to salvation and a theologicial approach, particularly regarding the ideals of justice and perfection which are present in the sermon on the mount.

    Originally posted by thborn View Post
    Every Christian probably finds the sermon on the mount beautiful and challenging, too. The blood of Christ washes away all the sins of all those who prove to be among God's elect. Christ's work here is perfect, is it not?
    There's a symbolic aspect to the blood of the last supper, which is represented by wine:

    For this is my blood of the new testament(diatheke), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
    But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
    Matthew 26:26-27

    Diatheke means covenant. The're also symbolism relating to the practice and consent of the people of the covenant:

    And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that YHWH hath said will we do, and be obedient.
    And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which YHWH hath made with you concerning all these words.
    Exodus 24:7-8

    The law of the old covenant relates to the law of the new covenant:

    Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
    Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith YHWH:
    But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith YHWH, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their Elohim, and they shall be my people.
    Jeremiah 31:31-33


    Originally posted by thborn View Post
    I am not greatly familiar with comparisons of Jonah's experience with the death and Resurrection of Jesus. Someone with greater learning than I will have to comment here.

    Here's the text that relates the sign of Jonah to the crucifixion, for which the law is not relevant:

    Matthew 12
    38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
    39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
    40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
    41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
    42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.


    And here's the text that relates the sign of Jonah to repentance, for which the law is relevant:

    Luke 11
    29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
    30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
    31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
    32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

    Jonah 3
    3 So Jonah arose, and went unto Nineveh, according to the word of YHWH. Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city of three days' journey.
    4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
    5 So the people of Nineveh believed Elohim, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
    10 And Elohim saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and Elohim repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

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  • dodge
    replied
    Galatians 1:23 proves that mad is wrong about Paul being the first to preach the mystery if you can receive it.Gal.1:23 says Paul preached what he tried to destroy. Sorry Madist cannot change God’s word to placate their idol Galatians1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

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  • thborn
    replied
    Originally posted by Theo102 View Post
    One of the teachings from the sermon of the mount was of perfection, which in the context of repentance involves an complete understanding of the law.
    I'm not sure where you're going with this, but please explain more. Do you mean that Matthew 5:48 "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect" does not agree with what I wrote above? Every Christian probably finds the sermon on the mount beautiful and challenging, too. The blood of Christ washes away all the sins of all those who prove to be among God's elect. Christ's work here is perfect, is it not? So at the time when God's grace is poured out on a sinner and they truly turn to Christ, there is a sort of perfection. I would say this perfection also encompasses the future spiritual growth of that believer as (s)he grows in faith, remains in Christ, and practices works of kindness...since I think that shows who is truly among God's children.

    1 Thessalonians 3:13 May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones. Ephesians 1:4: For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

    Do you have another way of relating the concept of perfection to the Scripture that comes after the sermon on the mount?

    Originally posted by Theo102 View Post
    The sign of Jonah that alludes to a resurrection of sorts isn't consistent with the historical timeline, i.e. three days and nights is not one day and two nights.
    I am not greatly familiar with comparisons of Jonah's experience with the death and Resurrection of Jesus. Someone with greater learning than I will have to comment here.

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  • Theo102
    replied
    Originally posted by thborn View Post
    By the time we get to Paul, I don't see any difference in terms of what a Jew or a Gentile from anywhere on earth needs to do in order to be saved...listen to the Word, repent, call on the name of Jesus, believe in one's heart that Jesus rose from the dead and is Lord, which, if one really believes it, leads towards a holy life and kindness to others.
    One of the teachings from the sermon of the mount was of perfection, which in the context of repentance involves an complete understanding of the law.
    The sign of Jonah that alludes to a resurrection of sorts isn't consistent with the historical timeline, i.e. three days and nights is not one day and two nights.

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