k0de
Active member
So you are good to go. You shall receive your reward from the Master when your race is complete. [emoji120],[emoji72]
My Religion
- Thread starter Guyver
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Yes. Interesting and thank you once again. I've got to tell you though, I don't live my life with any thought of reward in the afterlife. I believe in doing what is right in the here and now because it is the right thing do. I have no expectations of rewards for doing good while living here, nor any punishments for being "bad."
But, I do believe that there is an afterlife - though I admit it cannot be proven to exist - and I think that if God exists, whatever the afterlife is will be good.
And yet, I understand why some people would think the afterlife could be evil, or a place of torment. I mean, just think about how much "evil" everyone is subjected to just by living in this life? All these terrible things that occur here.....these evils that people do to one another; not to mention just the brutal nature of getting old and dying.
It's plenty to think about because one must consider there to be a reason for everything. Still, I stay with the idea that God is good and there's a reason we live here, suffer, then die.
k0de
Active member
About the good that's the right thing to do. We're are supposed to do good and expect nothing in return. And because you do good here with out expecting nothing back your reward is going to be great heaven.
About the bad. Well you probably already have heard all the possibilities. That is for you to decide.
Hmm, [emoji43][emoji848] Isn't what you're describing here faith? The word "believe", and the words "cannot be proven". Clearly shows that. And isn't FAITH the heart that pumps the blood into the body of Christ?
So your religion is something just as that as Christianity.
Thank God that the evil that we have to endure has been reduced from 900 hundred something years to 120 years. What is the whole meaning of life?
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George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Interesting how the Me generation is more fascinated in expressing self than studying God.
It is not His existence that is of concern, but ours. I suspect this is the reason for God's relative silence in the world today. Because we misunderstand where what we have has originated.
He gives to each a measure of His commodity of love in many ways: love for a baby, love for a parent, a friend, love of knowledge, creativity... And we egotistically interpret these as somehow having sprung up from within us without source or effort. It is only as we contemplate the impossibility of love that we recognize it for what it is - a gift that has its origin outside of us that takes up residence inside of us by the grace of our Creator.
Foolishness knows no boundaries in deceiving the heart of man.
It is not His existence that is of concern, but ours. I suspect this is the reason for God's relative silence in the world today. Because we misunderstand where what we have has originated.
He gives to each a measure of His commodity of love in many ways: love for a baby, love for a parent, a friend, love of knowledge, creativity... And we egotistically interpret these as somehow having sprung up from within us without source or effort. It is only as we contemplate the impossibility of love that we recognize it for what it is - a gift that has its origin outside of us that takes up residence inside of us by the grace of our Creator.
Foolishness knows no boundaries in deceiving the heart of man.
It’s interesting that you asked it this way Kode, because you didn’t ask my opinion of the meaning of life...you asked me what is the whole meaning of life. So, by asking in this way, are you suggesting that the meaning of life exists in parts that comprise a whole, and that the whole can be distinguished from its parts?
Thank you for participating in the thread, George Affleck. I’d like to discuss your input here, if you don’t mind.
First of all, would you define the “me” generation that you reference. What is that?
Next, will you discuss how you propose one go about studying God since you have offered it as an alternative to expressing oneself?
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Catholicism and I believe in everlasting life. But here's how we do it. There are already those who've 'crossed over' and are in heaven now already, these are the "cloud of witnesses" (Hebrews 12:1 KJV). We and they are all together the whole Church. We on the earth are the ones 'in the arena,' and they are our fans in the stands of heaven, eating and drinking concessions and rooting for us. When we pray to one of them it is like the arena's video board is focused on that saint in the moment, and the saints around them are congratulating them for being honored with a prayer from one of us 'on the field /court /rink.' Of course Mary is the one on that video board most of all! But other saints are also called upon to assist us.
Our everlasting life, logically and mathematically, due to its infinite duration, does not even compare in any way with our blink of eye on the earth---understand that our life on the earth and our life in the hereafter are categorically different in this regard Guyver, it's not the same as comparing a huge number with a tiny number, there is no way to compare a finite value with infinity. It's not that it's 'too hard' to do so; it's illogical to do so---senseless.
And so I see my life on earth as a prelude to what I'm really created to do, which is to largely sing, from what I gather. All those saints in the grandstands I mentioned earlier, they aren't really seated and eating popcorn while they watch us, they are singing in praise and worship to God the Father, Son, and Spirit, and that is what we all shall do, and so I live my life on earth according to what I figure I'll be doing for the rest of time, here and now. It informs me as I make every choice every moment of every day.
Of course doing evil is no part of this, that isn't even a consideration. Seeing with the eyes of faith what our everlasting destiny is, rules out certain things, and it rules in certain things as well, although both these things unfortunately are up for debate among fellow Christians, due to the schism between the Orthodox and Catholics, and then the defibrillation /fraying of the Reformation.
But one thing and one thing only, so far as I can tell, makes or breaks one as being an authentic Christian person, and that is believing in the Resurrection of Christ. One who believes that He is risen, has everlasting life already, and this life on this earth is a prelude to our everlasting destiny, which involves praising and worshiping God.
The Church believes that it is objectively determinable whether prayers to heaven are answered, and this is how we can authenticate people who have 'passed on' as still existing, which proves "an afterlife," if we accept the objective conditions the Church meets in order to make such authentication. The very first people the Church authenticated were of course the Apostles, after they had each 'passed on.' We know the Apostles are in heaven; that the Apostles are "Saints."
Agreed, and I believe that Catholicism as a whole, is that reason.
fwiw, and peace to you Guyver.
Peace be with you also.
Uh....fwiw....well, it's worth something in my book because like it or not, we learn from each other. Some of us however, require logic, reason, and supporting arguments for beliefs and ideas which you have provided. So, for that reason you have done well. You didn't just post up six hundred seventy two scriptures from the bible and assumes that establishes your point.
I find it interesting that you and the Catholics believe that the people who have lived before us and have passed.....our ancestors.....are in heaven but they not only exist in heaven, but they live much as we do here, on planet Earth....eating, drinking, and so forth....but they are also spectators watching us live.....rooting for us....and have the ability to assist us. It seems a variation on the theme of many people groups here who acknowledge their ancestors and believe similarly. I have no criticism for your beliefs because there is no way I could confirm or deny them. I have no idea what heaven is or where it is located....but if it is close enough to Earth to allow for spectators to observe us.....then it seems it exists in an alternate dimension. Since this alternate dimension must be a non-physical one or we could detect it with science, it's interesting to consider it necessary for people to eat and drink. Or perhaps you would offer that in heaven it is not necessary to eat and drink.....it is done simply for the pleasure of it.
7djengo7
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Oh, of course you think you're not that important, and don't want anyone to think that you are important! Of course. Just you and ol' honest Abe out there, treadin' the noble, thankless, narrow, uphill, wooded, nature path of that lonely existence, the two of yous admittedly not-that-important persons contra mundum. You're so much more unimportant, of course, than that rabble involved in "all of the worlds religions" which you "reject". (Unlike you, I, personally, am so important, and I know it, that I would feel quite silly trying to prop up my image by comparing myself to some not-that-important nobody like Lincoln.)
In response to your bumper-sticker-depth question, I suppose it would be just as well to say, "If you have to ask, you'll never know."
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
There's some parallel. I only note that these saints in heaven are our 'spiritual' ancestors, and not necessarily our blood relatives. Surely there are Christians with blood relatives who've 'passed over,' but the significant relation is the one of faith. We Christians believe in the Resurrection of Christ, and our spiritual ancestors in heaven Know (cf. 1Co13:12KJV).
You could investigate if so inclined what conditions that the Catholic Church requires in order for the Church to confirm that a departed person is in heaven right now, and then at least think about it, and how convincing the Church's reasoning is as set out. Just a thought.
As I mentioned, my belief in my everlasting life informs my life right now, and one of the things that I keep in mind is that, going along with the notion that the saints in heaven are rooting for us on earth, that I too will be in that same crowd one day, cheering on those future Christians who come after me, beside some of the most famous Christians who've ever lived.
My belief in my everlasting life serves as an integrating factor wrt all the other things that are much more clearly taught by the authorized teachers of the faith. There isn't much that is authoritatively taught about what heaven will be like, but we do know that every Mass here on earth is participation in the heavenly Mass in some way. If saints in heaven can hear our prayers (which are always petitions that they pray for us), then they must be able to hear us just generally. And Hebrews 12:1 KJV uses the word "witnesses" which means that they must also be able to see us.
And there's no reason to think that heaven is Not just beyond our telescopes' ability to see right now. As far as I understand it, we can see light that is 13.2 billion years old (or that has traveled 13.2 billion lightyears), and cosmologists' best estimate for the age of the universe is something like 13.6 billion years, so what if our telescopes do one day see light from 13.6 billion lightyears away? Maybe they'll see heaven that day. Maybe they'll see Christ Jesus seated at the right hand of the Father.
And then Christ's Resurrection will be logically confirmed to be a nonfictional historical fact.
Idoloter, yes...you are right. Scientists observing Jesus sitting at the right hand of God in Heaven would be proof of the resurrection for many people.
But, people who are observing us here on Earth from 13.6 billion light years away....would be observing what we do 13.6 billion years ago. We would all be dead and turned to dust for billions of years before they observed what we have done.
But, people who are observing us here on Earth from 13.6 billion light years away....would be observing what we do 13.6 billion years ago. We would all be dead and turned to dust for billions of years before they observed what we have done.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Honestly this just reminds me of Christ's "Abraham's," "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead" (Lk16:31KJV). There's something to that notion. Some people are just eternally stubborn. 'Nothing can be done to help it. It's just up to them, and they just refuse, for whatever reason. I think it is fair to call them stubborn though.
One of my oldest and best friends died yesterday. He was a Christian brother named Gary. The details are not clear to us at this time because they didn’t even get him back to shore until 4 am, this morning. He was attempting to drive a two engine boat from Channel Islands harbor up to San Luis Harbor and something went wrong with the engines. He and another man were found dead by the Coast Guard, one inside the boat and one on deck.
Gary’s oldest son Luke who is also a fundamentalist evangelical Christian was first one down on the scene because he believed he had the faith to raise his father back from the dead with two or three of his closest Christian friends through prayer. Their prayer efforts were not successful and they were not able to raise this kind man back to life.
Gary’s oldest son Luke who is also a fundamentalist evangelical Christian was first one down on the scene because he believed he had the faith to raise his father back from the dead with two or three of his closest Christian friends through prayer. Their prayer efforts were not successful and they were not able to raise this kind man back to life.
And this is supposed to do... What exactly?
We readily acknowledge that there are Christians who are misguided in their beliefs.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
That's sad. I am sorry, Guyver. Peace be with you.
Perspective.
Christians like Luke believe that they can raise people from the dead because the Bible speaks about it. Jesus is said to have done it and he told believers the works he does they would do, and even greater works than what he did.
Those things passed away after God changed programs.
Well, some people who believe the Bible to be Gods word don’t agree with you. They don’t believe God changes his mind, and what he said can be believed and practiced.
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