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  • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
    Poor clueless Squeaky. Even when shown from the scripture what it plainly says... he does not understand a thing.
    The reason being, he doesn't KNOW how to 'Rightly Divide' the word of God.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
      So set me straight if you are able. In order to understand exactly how people down through the ages have been saved let us look at the following words of Paul where he speaks of the gospel of grace:

      "And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and this righteousness of God is through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those who believe, -- for there is no difference, for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God --being declared righteous freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"
      (Ro.3:21-24).

      Paul says that this righteousness of God which is apart from law is now being made known. Then he says that this righteousness of God comes to all who believe. This blessing is made possible because believers are "declared freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus."

      Now let us look at what is in "bold" here:

      "And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and this righteousness of God is through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those who believe..."

      Paul is saying that the truth of the believer receiving this imputed righteousness which is of God was revealed by him first but the Old Testament testifies that even in those times believers were also obtaining the imputed righteousness which is of God. And then Paul first uses Abraham as an example of believers who receive this blessing by faith:

      "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness"
      (Ro.4:1-3).

      Then Paul moves on to David, who lived under the law:

      "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin"
      (Ro.4:4-8).

      Next, Paul made it plain that both the Jews and the Gentiles receive the same blessing in the same way:

      "Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also"
      (Ro.9-11).

      All believers down through history have received this blessedness which is apart from law or works. And then Paul makes it plain that both the Jews and the Gentiles are saved by faith on the principle of grace:

      "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all"
      (Ro.4:16).

      If you want to argue that those under the law could not be saved apart from works then they certainly do not understand that if salvation is of works then that salvation cannot be described as being of "grace."

      So where is your evidence that proves that salvation has not always been by grace through faith?
      Like I said: "You don't KNOW how to 'Rightly Divide' the written word of God."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
        Like I said: "You don't KNOW how to 'Rightly Divide' the written word of God."
        I asked you to correct what I wrote if you are able. Evidently you are not able!

        It is you who doesn't KNOW how to 'Rightly Divide' the Bible and the words of Paul which I quoted proves it.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
          How does Peter say that sins are forgiven?

          "All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name"
          (Acts 10:43).
          And the prophets bore witness to the coming Messiah. I'm wondering why you changed remission to forgiveness.
          Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
            And the prophets bore witness to the coming Messiah. I'm wondering why you changed remission to forgiveness.
            Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
            I said
            Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
            ἄφεσις √°phesis, af'-es-is; from G863; freedom; (figuratively) pardon:—deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
              "Repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" is confession of the Lord Jesus belief in what He is and what He represents, including (but not exclusively limited to) that God raised him from the dead for our salvation. There' s more than one way to approach the same subject.
              No, it isn't. It relates solely to the fact that Jesus is the promised Messiah. Peter speaks to the men of Israel....
              Acts 3:19-20 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

              This is not the Gospel of Grace that Paul preached to the Gentiles. The death, burial, and resurrection has nothing to do with these words to the Jews.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                Everyone who has ever been saved down through history has been saved by grace through faith, even those who lived under the law:
                "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).
                Really? Maybe it was a mystery. Maybe that's why the twelve didn't preach it. Maybe that's why the risen Lord revealed it to Paul. Maybe that's why there is more than the one Gospel.
                Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

                Comment


                • We start out in grade school. The we go to junior high. Then we go to high school.
                  Now they teach things in grade school that will be later changed in junior high. So why do they do that? Because the grade school just wouldnt understand the message. The first thing they learn in grade school is the difference between numbers and letters. And they teach them they dont mix. You just keep them separate. Letters are used for words to communicate with one another. You cant communicate with numbers. Letters are for english. Numbers are for mathematics adding and subtracting numbers. They do this because they know from experience how confusing it can be for a child. But when the child gets to junior high they find out about algebra. Where you do math with numbers and letters. Because then hopfully they can deal with it.
                  That is the same pattern that God uses in the bible. As children we start out with just faith in Jesus that He is doing it for us. And we look for the Holy Spirit that Jesus told us He would send to us to teach us.
                  Now here comes the Holy Spirit quoting verses. And He now tells us that we must be a doer of the Word and not just a hearer of the Word. Now we must get into the works of the new testament.That is where many christians fall, or start lying to themselves and saying all we need is faith. They just cant make that transition. Some move into the meat understanding while the weak fall short and stay in the milk. This is why the gospel was given to us in parts or portions.

                  [Jas 3:13
                  [13] Who [is] wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct [that] his works [are done] in the meekness of wisdom.

                  [Jas 2:14, 17-18, 20-22, 24, 26
                  [14] What [does it] profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? ...
                  [17] Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
                  [18] But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. ...
                  [20] But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
                  [21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
                  [22] Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? ...
                  [24] You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. ...
                  [26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Squeaky View Post
                    I said
                    Some of the people in here dont really understand repentance. I have went around and around with them about this. One guy had been in the bible for years and he told me he did repent when he started. Away back when. They dont understand the truth will bring out repentance daily. And we need it. I asked him why he didnt repent daily when God says He will forgive us 490 times a day if we repent. He never answered my question.

                    [Mat 18:21-22
                    [21] Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
                    [22] Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
                    Something like "I repented once and that was enough and I'll never do it again?"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                      Who is Peter asking to repent and what are they to repent of?

                      Act 2:36-38 KJV Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

                      (Hint: the correct answers are Israel and the rejection of Jesus Christ).
                      Even by your twisted standard that tosses out half the scripture at any given time, who is Paul speaking to here?

                      2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV
                      (10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
                        And the prophets bore witness to the coming Messiah. I'm wondering why you changed remission to forgiveness.
                        Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
                        He doesn't always strictly use King James.

                        Acts 10:43 Tyndale
                        (43) To him geve all the Prophetes witnes that thorowe his name shall receave remission of synnes all that beleve in him.

                        Acts 10:43 Bishops
                        (43) To hym geue all the prophetes witnesse, that through his name whosoeuer beleueth in hym, shall receaue remission of sinnes.

                        Acts 10:43 Geneva
                        (43) To him also giue all the Prophets witnesse, that through his Name all that beleeue in him, shall receiue remission of sinnes.

                        Those three (above) are almost the same as the King James and they also used the word remission. It seems to be a synonym.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
                          No, it isn't. It relates solely to the fact that Jesus is the promised Messiah. Peter speaks to the men of Israel....
                          Acts 3:19-20 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

                          This is not the Gospel of Grace that Paul preached to the Gentiles. The death, burial, and resurrection has nothing to do with these words to the Jews.
                          The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ has nothing to do with how they spoke to the Jews? Are you serious? You expected them to simply forget these words that were used to bring them to baptism?

                          Acts 2:21-32 KJV
                          (21) And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
                          (22) Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
                          (23) Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
                          (24) Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
                          (25) For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
                          (26) Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
                          (27) Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
                          (28) Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
                          (29) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
                          (30) Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
                          (31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
                          (32) This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

                          Acts 2:36-38 KJV
                          (36) Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
                          (37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
                          (38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


                          How am I supposed to take anything you say seriously? Do you know what "Grace" means (it seems not.) For that matter, why am I listening to anyone who refuses to give a clear answer to questions like these?

                          1. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love God" and does this change manifest itself in your life?
                          2. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and does this change manifest itself in your life?
                          3. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love thy enemies" and does this change manifest itself in your life?
                          4. Do attempt to fulfill through faith and practice "Love one another" and does this change manifest itself in your life?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
                            Even by your twisted standard that tosses out half the scripture at any given time, who is Paul speaking to here?

                            2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV
                            (10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
                            Another childish attempt to AVOID answering the question... Instead of answering... you ask a question.

                            Stick to Acts 2 for a moment, spin doctor..
                            All of my ancestors are human.
                            Originally posted by Squeaky
                            That explains why your an idiot.
                            Originally posted by God's Truth
                            Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                            Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                            1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                            (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                            Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
                              Really?
                              Yes, really. Here Paul makes it plain that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

                              "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).

                              Since it is by grace then it cannot be of works. Paul also wrote the following:

                              "since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith"
                              (Ro.3:30).

                              The testimony of Peter concerning his own salvation bears witness to the fact that he was saved by the grace of God in the same way as the Gentiles:
                              "God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us...We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are" (Acts 15:8,11).

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by glorydaz View Post
                                And the prophets bore witness to the coming Messiah. I'm wondering why you changed remission to forgiveness.
                                Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
                                I didn't change it. It came that way with the translation which I used. In both cases they mean exactly the same thing.

                                Comment

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