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  • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Your answer is contradicted by the following words which explain why some people don't believe:

    "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (Jn.3:18-21).
    Your subject, once again: Believe/believeth. THE VERB.

    Faith is a noun. Please, please, please learn the difference in nouns and verbs. Please?
    Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
    “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

    Comment


    • The difficulty for some here is the same that plagues most English speakers (and that doesn’t mean anyone has to be or become a linguist just to read scripture, but recognition of basic grammatical forms is necessary for everyone).

      Nouns are not verbs. English translation is difficult at a few points from other languages like Hebrew and Greek. Greek has a default noun construct that can APPEAR to be a verb because of how English demands translation. The Greek anarthrous noun indicates quality, character(istic), or functional activity, but the activity is internal because of the state of being of the “thing” that is the noun.

      Example: A table is not tablING when it holds up items it was designed to support. That’s an internal functionality of its state of being as a table.

      So faith is not believING, but the verb is what the noun does. So no one can believe without being given the thing that does the actING/actION of believING. Nouns verb. Things do.

      One can’t make a cellular call without having a phone that does the callING. One can’t chop a tree without having the axe that does the chopping. One can’t believe without having the thing that does the believING, which is belief/faith as a noun.

      This noun of faith is a gift of God. Romans 10:17 clearly says “THE faith cometh out of THE message/report/news (yes, hearing is a NOUN), and THE message/report/news by means of the Word of God.

      ALL NOUNS, and ALL articular (the/this/that). Any faith can come out of any message by means of any word/s. But THE faith cometh out of THE message/report/news by means of THE Word of God.

      This is how God gives this gift of THE faith, which is a noun. And the noun does the believING. So because God has given the thing that believes, then man believes. Man cannot believe without the thing that does the actING of believING. Without God’s gift, man cannot believe the correct thing.

      This is why faith is not a work. Faith/belief is a noun. Nowhere in the text is faith/belief a verb. Nouns aren’t verbs. So it’s the God-given gift of faith by the message of the Word that does the believING, and thus those who have THE faith believe THE message and THE Word.

      “A” wrong Word and “a” wrong message mean “a” wrong faith. It doesn’t mean all men don’t have faith. It DOES mean not all men will have THE faith that saves them. God gives this salvific gift of faith out of the Gospel of grace by means of the Word of God.

      God hath given to every man (the) measure of faith (Romans 12:3). Measure is a noun and it’s anarthrous. This means God has given man the qualitative characteristics and functional activity of internal belief in general. Man is now able to believe, the verb.

      But there has to be a thing believed and a thing heard and a source of those things. That source is the Word of God; that message/report/news that is the thing heard is the Gospel; and that thing believed is what belief is. Faith is the thing believed, which is the Gospel of grace from the Word.

      There is NO way salvation can be of works, and faith is not a work because it’s a noun. Likewise, THE faith will have works. The works of faith are not the works of the Law by man’s own standard/s. The works of faith come out of the noun that is faith, and that came from the Gospel from the Word of God.

      This is actually quite simple once one gets past the problem of basic grammar in translation.
      Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
      “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
        Your subject, once again: Believe/believeth. THE VERB.

        Faith is a noun. Please, please, please learn the difference in nouns and verbs. Please?
        I know the difference but you make assertions and then run and hide when asked to give proof from the Bible to support your assertions.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
          I know the difference
          No. You “know” the general label difference, not the actual functional difference from a linguistic perspective.

          but you make assertions and then run and hide when asked to give proof from the Bible to support your assertions.
          No. The meanings are in the grammatical forms and lexicography for the words, not in endless modern proof-texting to reinforce false concepts like your misunderstandings.

          You have constantly referred to faith (the noun) and then provided verses with believe/believing (the verb). You keep thinking that man can believe without the noun of faith that does the believING.

          You think man can believe without faith, because you can’t yet comprehend that it is faith itself that does the believING.

          So EVERY scripture you’ve provided that refers to believING is the clear demonstration that God gives man faith as a gift. And there’s a distinction between “a” faith in general and “the” faith in particular.

          But because you don’t have the slightest idea how to understand Greek anarthrous nouns versus Greek articular nouns, you don’t have any idea what scripture is saying and have substituted your false understandings to conflate nouns and verbs (particularly faith and believe/believing).

          And you’re going to keep on and on and on and on posting that the problem is mine when I’ve demonstrated your lack of understanding over and over and over and over. You just can’t and won’t get past the veil that is over your eyes.

          Romans 10:17 is all ANYONE needs for this to be demonstrated. But every scripture you’ve posted ALSO bears witness to all I’ve said. You just still conflate believe/believing (the VERB) with faith (the NOUN).

          You think you make cellular calls when it’s your phone that is doing the calling. You only call because you “have” a cellphone. This simple example is to be applied to faith. Faith believes. Nouns verb. Things do. Man can only have faith; man cannot believe if not given faith.

          Stop trying to blame me repeatedly when it’s your fundamental ignorance that has sculpted your false views and spurious doctrines. You’ve hijacked a thread because you refuse to be corrected. And this is because you can’t ever entertain the fact of how wrong you are in so many ways, beginning here with nouns and verbs. It has tainted everything you think and believe. Everything.
          Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
          “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

          Comment


          • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
            Stop trying to blame me repeatedly when it’s your fundamental ignorance that has sculpted your false views and spurious doctrines.
            Since you seem to think that you really know what you speak about then why do you continue to refuse to give us the Scriptures that you think proves that you are right when you said that "faith" is a gift.

            You call me ignorant but where is your evidence? I think it is you who is ignorant about this subject and not me. How long will you refuse to back up your assertions with evidence from the Scriptures?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
              Since you seem to think that you really know what you speak about then why do you continue to refuse to give us the Scriptures that you think proves that you are right when you said that "faith" is a gift.

              You call me ignorant but where is your evidence? I think it is you who is ignorant about this subject and not me. How long will you refuse to back up your assertions with evidence from the Scriptures?
              And you STILL don’t get that providing scripture after scripture after scripture in proof-texting mode is a modernist error. You don’t understand the noun of faith and the verb of believe/believing in ONE verse, so you’re surely not going to understand them in a thousand verses.

              I provided all the scripture that is necessary. Romans 10:17. But ANY other scripture with the word faith/belief in it is the same, just as ANY other scripture with the word believe/believing.

              EACH of the (few) verses you provided referred to BELIEVE/BELIEVING. THE VERB. That means there was already faith there from some source to do the believING.

              Your biggest problem is your proof-texting mentality. By that you just presuppose all the wrong meanings in each scripture you post, and from an ignorant English-only perspective.

              Your stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Nouns aren’t verbs. Faith is not believing.

              Enough. The veil over your eyes is too thick and you want to keep it. You don’t want to know the truth. All you want is to manipulate multiple verses to attempt to say what your false doctrines insist.

              Faith. Is. A. Noun. Faith believes. You don’t believe. No man believes. Only faith believes. Nouns verb. Things do.

              For faith to be the thing that believes, FAITH MUST BE GIVEN TO MAN BY SOME MEANS. Man can’t believe without faith.

              I’ve wasted too much precious time with you already. If you don’t begin to get this by now, it’s not my problem or responsibility to keep arguing with you about nouns and verbs to teach you.

              You insist scripture has to explicitly say that faith is a gift given to man by God. Scripture says this by its constant usage of nouns and verbs as faith and believing. ALL the verses are proof-texts if they have pistis or pisteuo in them. Scripture knows the difference. You don’t.

              Enough. Learn or not.
              Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
              “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
                I provided all the scripture that is necessary. Romans 10:17.
                Are you really this dense? Romans 10:17 doesn't say that "faith" is a gift.

                People do not lack faith because they are not given a so-called gift of faith to them but instead because they resist the gospel which comes in the power of the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51).

                I cited that verse earlier and you did not address it. Instead, you try to change the subject by accusing me of not being able to tell a verb from a noun!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                  Are you really this dense? Romans 10:17 doesn't say that "faith" is a gift.

                  People do not lack faith because they are not given a so-called gift of faith to them but instead because they resist the gospel which comes in the power of the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51).

                  I cited that verse earlier and you did not address it. Instead, you try to change the subject by accusing me of not being able to tell a verb from a noun!
                  Learn or not. Your verse used the term believe, which is a verb. Learn or not.
                  Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                  “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                  Comment


                  • Jerry... Where do all things come from? Who is the Creator?
                    Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                    “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
                      Learn or not. Your verse used the term believe, which is a verb. Learn or not.
                      Of course you just ignored the evidence that I gave that demonstrates that people do not believe because they haven't received a so-called "gift" of faith from God but instead because they resist the Holy Spirit.

                      And the word "believe" is not found at Acts 7:51.

                      Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
                      Jerry... Where do all things come from? Who is the Creator?
                      So are you now going to argue that God is the source of all evil despite the fact that in Him there is no darkness (1 Jn.1:5)?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                        Of course you just ignored the evidence that I gave that demonstrates that people do not believe because they haven't received a so-called "gift" of faith from God but instead because they resist the Holy Spirit.
                        Of course you continue to ignore Greek grammar and semantics to have ANY clue what nouns are and what words actually mean apart from your false concepts and doctrines.

                        And the word "believe" is not found at Acts 7:51.
                        But it’s found in all the other verses you proof-texted (without even knowing the meaning of the word or its grammatical form.

                        You simply will never understand grammar because you refuse to give up your false understandings and doctrines.

                        So are you now going to argue that God is the source of all evil despite the fact that in Him there is no darkness (1 Jn.1:5)?
                        Again, you have NO idea what words mean, including evil in both Hebrew and Greek, and darkness in Greek; just like you have no idea how simple grammatical forms disprove your ignorant assertions and concepts.

                        BTW...
                        I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
                        Isaiah 45:7

                        God indeed DOES create evil, just as He said in Isaiah. But you have no idea what the word means for a valid Christian Theodicy (just like you don’t know what Theodicy is or means.)

                        At this point, I’ve exhausted too much time and energy on your false understandings, and you are unteachable and uncorrectable by the Word according to grammar and semantics while stubbornly keeping your false concepts and doctrines.

                        When you can tell me exactly what it means that God creates evil, then I will respond again. But it will have to be accurate. It’s a waste to have discussion with you.
                        Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                        “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
                          I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
                          Isaiah 45:7

                          God indeed DOES create evil, just as He said in Isaiah.
                          The LORD creates darkness because part of the world is in darkness when that part is facing away from the sun. But that is not what the following verse is about:

                          "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all"
                          (1 Jn.1:5).

                          Of course you said nothing about those words but instead you quoted a verse in a failed attempt to make what John wrote to be in error.

                          Besides that, you don't know the LORD God if you actually think that He is responsible for the evil in the world. Here is a better translation of Isaiah 45:7:
                          "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things" (Ish. 45:7; NIV).

                          Evil is caused by sin and the LORD is not responsible for anyone's sins. If you think that evil is a result of God's actions then you do not know the one and only God.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                            The LORD creates darkness because part of the world is in darkness when that part is facing away from the sun. But that is not what the following verse is about:

                            "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all"
                            (1 Jn.1:5).
                            And I didn’t contradict that verse. You just don’t and can’t know that because you don’t know what words actually mean yet presume you do.

                            Of course you said nothing about those words but instead you quoted a verse in a failed attempt to make what John wrote to be in error.
                            Wrong again. Neither John nor any other human author of scripture is in error. The problem is that you don’t understand what scripture says because you stubbornly cling to your English-based concepts of error and are absolutely and completely uncorrectable.

                            Besides that, you don't know the LORD God if you actually think that He is responsible for the evil in the world.
                            And here we go again. You don’t know what ra’a means. That’s the Hebrew word that is translated as evil and many other words. And you don’t know what tov means if you don’t know what ra’a means, because ra’a is explicitly related to tov in a particular manner. Tov is often translated good, among other renderings.

                            You don’t have any idea what tov (good) and ra’a (evil) are and mean, just like you don’t know what much of anything else means as far as grammatical forms and semantics with biblical lexicography.

                            Here is a better translation of Isaiah 45:7:
                            "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things" (Ish. 45:7; NIV).
                            No, this is not a better translation. You’re not a linguist. You have NO grounds on which to determine which translations are better or worse, or any other facet of language translation.

                            BOTH the KJV and the NIV are correct. But you don’t have any idea why or how, yet you’ll likely continue to post and post and post and post and post as though you know something about this.

                            Ra’a is the word used in Isaiah 45:7, just like it’s the word used in Genesis for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So now you’ve insisted it’s the tree of the knowledge of good and disaster.

                            Evil is caused by sin
                            Evil and sin are related, but again, you have no idea how because you don’t remotely know what either word means.

                            and the LORD is not responsible for anyone's sins. If you think that evil is a result of God's actions then you do not know the one and only God.
                            Yet again, you double down on your ignorance of what words mean. You don’t know what evil is or you wouldn’t have said anything you’ve said.


                            I’m going to leave you in your ignorance. Discussion is pointless with you because you have no idea what grammar or words mean. You refuse to be corrected in any manner. DO NOT ADDRESS ME AGAIN ON THIS FORUM. There are plenty of others you can troll. Post to others. Do not post to me.
                            Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                            “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                              Your answer is contradicted by the following words which explain why some people don't believe:

                              "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (Jn.3:18-21).
                              False and invalid statement !
                              "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                              preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                              called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                              a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                              Charles Spurgeon !

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
                                But you said faith was a work. Are you ready to yield to the inspired text and admit you have been wrong in disagreement with the Word?
                                Your comment isnt sensible nor relevant !
                                "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                                preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                                called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                                a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                                Charles Spurgeon !

                                Comment

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