Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is believing/faith a work ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • In Hebrew, we have the word aman and in Greek pistuo both these words convey exactly the same meaning. The English translaters used three words that convey diffenet meanings in the translation. They had no experiance of what the original words conveyed and so the inserted one of the three words willy nilly. only occasionally using the correct word that conveyed what the original Greek and Hebrew conveys. The three words in English are faith, belief and trust. Only one is loaded with saving value.

    Just like you, chasing your tail trying to figure out something you've never experianced.If it wasn't so pitifull I would laugh, loudly.
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Truster View Post
      In Hebrew, we have the word aman and in Greek pistuo both these words convey exactly the same meaning. The English translaters used three words that convey diffenet meanings in the translation. They had no experiance of what the original words conveyed and so the inserted one of the three words willy nilly. only occasionally using the correct word that conveyed what the original Greek and Hebrew conveys. The three words in English are faith, belief and trust. Only one is loaded with saving value.

      Just like you, chasing your tail trying to figure out something you've never experianced.If it wasn't so pitifull I would laugh, loudly.
      You forgot to differentiate between grammatical forms, as would be expected.

      Nouns aren’t verbs, whether it’s Hebrew or Greek (or English or any other language).

      (But thanks for confirming all I said by saying “...chasing your tail to figure out SOMETHING you’ve never experienced.” That someTHING is a noun. Thanks for unwittingly endorsing all I’ve said via your ignorance.)

      This isn’t hard. Nouns aren’t verbs. Both the Hebrew and Greek texts differentiate between nouns and verbs, as does any English translation. Most just convert nouns to verbs by mental concept because English is limited in how it expresses most things.)
      Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
      “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
        You forgot to differentiate between grammatical forms, as would be expected.

        Nouns aren’t verbs, whether it’s Hebrew or Greek (or English or any other language).

        (But thanks for confirming all I said by saying “...chasing your tail to figure out SOMETHING you’ve never experienced.” That someTHING is a noun. Thanks for unwittingly endorsing all I’ve said via your ignorance.)

        This isn’t hard. Nouns aren’t verbs. Both the Hebrew and Greek texts differentiate between nouns and verbs, as does any English translation. Most just convert nouns to verbs by mental concept because English is limited in how it expresses most things.)
        I thought I had you on ignore. I know for an absolute fact there is nothing that you have to babble about that I want or need to read. Like wise there is no truuth that I post that you could possibly comprehend.

        PROBLEM RECTIFIED:This message is hidden because PneumaPsucheSoma is on your ignore list.
        I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

        "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

        I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
        A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
        If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

        Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

        I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
          But your OP fallaciously conflated the noun faith with the verb believING. Nouns aren’t verbs. Verbs are actions. Works. Nouns are things. Nouns aren’t works. Faith is not a work. Faith accomplishes the believING because it has all aspects of the actING within itself as a noun.

          Tables don’t do the action of “tabling” by holding up whatever they were designed to support. Dining tables aren’t tabling by their passive ability to hold up dishes and food and beverages, etc. It’s an aspect of the state of being as a kind of table. Tables aren’t “tabling”. Tabling isn’t even a verb.

          Faith is NOT a work. Nouns aren’t verbs.

          Are you getting this yet?
          Denial. Faith and believing are the same, believing is a verb
          "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
          preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
          called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
          a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

          Charles Spurgeon !

          Comment


          • B57,

            So are you ignoring him, or are you going to keep replying to him? You need to make up your mind one way or the other because at this point it's going to look like you're dishonestly trolling your own thread.

            @Sherman
            "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
            Terence Mc Lean

            [most will be very surprised]


            Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
            By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
              Denial. Faith and believing are the same, believing is a verb
              Nouns aren’t verbs.

              Pistis is faith. Pistis is a noun.

              Pisteuo is believe. Pisteuo is a verb.

              BelievING is a verb, yes.

              But faith is a noun.

              This is not hard. It’s only difficult because the default for most English speakers is to conceptually transform Greek anarthrous nouns into English verbs.

              This is linguistic fact. It’s inarguable, validly. You’re simply wrong.

              Say believING is a work, but you can’t say faith is a work because it’s a noun. This is very simple.
              Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
              “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Truster View Post
                I thought I had you on ignore. I know for an absolute fact there is nothing that you have to babble about that I want or need to read. Like wise there is no truuth that I post that you could possibly comprehend.

                PROBLEM RECTIFIED:This message is hidden because PneumaPsucheSoma is on your ignore list.
                Problem indeed rectified, for me and the whole forum. Thank you. Have a great week.
                Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by musterion View Post
                  B57,

                  So are you ignoring him, or are you going to keep replying to him? You need to make up your mind one way or the other because at this point it's going to look like you're dishonestly trolling your own thread.

                  @Sherman
                  This will be unnecessarily difficult for him and others. Cognitive dissonance is a cruel master.

                  Faith cannot be a work because it’s a noun.
                  Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                  “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                    Denial. Faith and believing are the same, believing is a verb
                    Pistis (faith) is NOT pisteuo (believe/believing). Faith is a noun. Believe/believing is a verb. Nouns aren’t verbs.

                    Faith is a thing. A glorious thing as the gift from God out of the message that is directly by means of the Word. Thus sayeth the inspired text. Thus sayeth basic grammar.
                    Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                    “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                    Comment


                    • BTW... Repentance is also a noun before it can be a verb. God grants this thing called repentance, and that repentance does the repentING. Repenting is NOT a work that man does. Man has the thing that is the changed condition of his mind for moral reflection according to spiritual life given by God when He resurrects us from spiritual death.

                      Faith, hope, love, grace, mercy, repentance... all nouns. That doesn’t mean there aren’t corresponding verbs, but the actING comes forth from the thing given by God with the internal functional activity within it.

                      Faith will not abstain from believING, so there will be no noun without the verb ultimately coming forth. But make no mistake that it is the noun that is the foundation. Nouns verb. Things do. There is NO actING if there is no noun. So without the thing of faith given by God out of the message by means of the Word, there is no actING and resuling actION/S.

                      This is why faith without works is dead, but also why by the works of the Law shall no man be justified. The works of the Law are not the works of faith. There were two ancient Covenants. One was Abrahamic and the other was Mosaic. The Abrahamic was Faith and the Mosaic was Law. Both are fullfilled in Christ, so that form of the Law as the handwriting of ordinaances was abolished in Christ as the final form of Law.

                      No need to conflate faith and believING. Faith is the noun. Believe/believING is the verb.

                      There isn’t much more break-down necessary. Nouns simply aren’t verbs. And verbs cannot be actING with resulting actIONs if there is no noun.
                      Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                      “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
                        Pistis (faith) is NOT pisteuo (believe/believing). Faith is a noun. Believe/believing is a verb. Nouns aren’t verbs.

                        Faith is a thing. A glorious thing as the gift from God out of the message that is directly by means of the Word. Thus sayeth the inspired text. Thus sayeth basic grammar.
                        Your posts never cease to amaze and inspire me PPS. Whether they are didactic or pastoral.

                        Yes, love, faith and hope are, indeed, actual, real, spiritual commodities and belief is the personal result of using these real things. I am amazed at how the world teaches us that things like time, character, integrity, etc. are real things when they are not. And it teaches us that the things that really are actual things like love, sin, faith, etc. are not real.
                        When my wife died I went in search of what love is and found much I did not expect to find. The world tells us that love is just an emotion; but it is definitely not. Emotions are subjective responses and have no intrinsic life of their own. They come and go in response to circumstances and are directed through our current worldview.

                        Love (and faith and hope), on the other hand, does not behave like emotions; it abides - per 1Cor13. God objectively pours love out of the overflowing bounty of His essence to His finite likenesses whom He loves. And when He does, that love takes up residence and does not come and go. It is the currency by which, when invested according to His redemptive purposes, helps us find our way back to Him, by His grace, and receive the other 2 gifts: faith and hope. As we apply this concept, we begin to see, in our rear view mirror, God has been guiding us without us realizing it fully.

                        Interestingly Paul tells us that love abides, behaves a certain way and not other ways, and it never ends. It is spoken of as having lifelike qualities for good reason. The only way to get love out of your life is to deliberately chase it away by starving it, choking it or disrespecting it. And many do just that; and God takes it back. Sad. But God is long-suffering.

                        The easiest way to understand love is when a baby is born. Love shows up with the baby in the heart of the parents and, unless it is deliberately misused, it continues (abides) until death. With marriage, God gives abundantly of this commodity for their lifetime use. Some use it wisely and some do not. After many months of struggling with grief (emotional response) I came to the realization that grief consists of not understanding what has happened in God's economy. My emotions were bouncing off the walls with nothing to light upon; erratically, spontaneously, chaotically. Anger, despondency, shame, regret...

                        I came to realize that the object my emotions were seeking was not my wife, but the abiding love God gave us at the beginning that we had both nurtured for so long and was more valuable to both of us than even each other. We knew that He had brought us together and when she left, she took it with her and presented it to Him. When this realization came to me and I admitted that love had gone, the emotions quickly subsided. Far too many suffer many years of immobility and uselessness because they cannot bring themselves to take this leap.

                        Blessings for your continued teaching and input here on TOL.
                        Last edited by George Affleck; March 5th, 2019, 12:27 PM. Reason: capitalization
                        Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

                        It is true that Trump does not fit modern Republican principles, but that is because modern Republican principles have strayed far from conservatism. genuineoriginal

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by musterion View Post
                          B57,

                          So are you ignoring him, or are you going to keep replying to him? You need to make up your mind one way or the other because at this point it's going to look like you're dishonestly trolling your own thread.

                          @Sherman

                          It's his thread. The member can choose to leave the thread. If he start following him around the forum and trolling him, then that becomes an issue.

                          June is Gay Pride Month.Tolerance and diversity? ☞ More like tolerate perversity.☠

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by George Affleck View Post
                            Your posts never cease to amaze and inspire me PPS. Whether they are didactic or pastoral.

                            Yes, love, faith and hope are, indeed, actual, real, spiritual commodities and belief is the personal result of using these real things. I am amazed at how the world teaches us that things like time, character, integrity, etc. are real things when they are not. And it teaches us that the things that really are actual things like love, sin, faith, etc. are not real.
                            When my wife died I went in search of what love is and found much I did not expect to find. The world tells us that love is just an emotion; but it is definitely not. Emotions are subjective responses and have no intrinsic life of their own. They come and go in response to circumstances and are directed through our current worldview.

                            Love (and faith and hope), on the other hand, does not behave like emotions; it abides - per 1Cor13. God objectively pours love out of the overflowing bounty of His essence to His finite likenesses whom He loves. And when He does, that love takes up residence and does not come and go. It is the currency by which, when invested according to His redemptive purposes, helps us find our way back to Him, by His grace, and receive the other 2 gifts: faith and hope. As we apply this concept, we begin to see, in our rear view mirror, God has been guiding us without us realizing it fully.

                            Interestingly Paul tells us that love abides, behaves a certain way and not other ways, and it never ends. It is spoken of as having lifelike qualities for good reason. The only way to get love out of your life is to deliberately chase it away by starving it, choking it or disrespecting it. And many do just that; and God takes it back. Sad. But god is long-suffering.

                            The easiest way to understand love is when a baby is born. Love shows up with the baby in the heart of the parents and, unless it is deliberately misused, it continues (abides) until death. With marriage, God gives abundantly of this commodity for their lifetime use. Some use it wisely and some do not. After many months of struggling with grief (emotional response) I came to the realization that grief consists of not understanding what has happened in God's economy. My emotions were bouncing off the walls with nothing to light upon; erratically, spontaneously, chaotically. Anger, despondency, shame, regret...

                            I came to realize that the object my emotions were seeking was not my wife, but the abiding love God gave us at the beginning that we had both nurtured for so long and was more valuable to both of us than even each other. We knew that He had brought us together and when she left, she took it with her and presented it to Him. When this realization came to me and I admitted that love had gone, the emotions quickly subsided. Far too many suffer many years of immobility and uselessness because they cannot bring themselves to take this leap.

                            Blessings for your continued teaching and input here on TOL.
                            Yes, love is a noun. And that means it’s ontological. God IS love, and it is one of His communicable attributes to us so that we can BE love. It’s all Christological. We are being and becoming the love of God in Christ. And that is the foundation for our communion, both intangible and tangible.

                            Your response was amazingly insightful and edifying, giving glory to God. Interesting how that works, huh.
                            Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                            “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                            Comment


                            • Let’s review, since there’s nothing but crickets from the OP after being refuted by basic grammar.


                              Nouns aren’t verbs.

                              Pistis is faith. Pistis is a noun.

                              Pisteuo is believe. Pisteuo is a verb.

                              BelievING is a verb, yes.

                              But faith is a noun.

                              This is not hard. It’s only difficult because the default for most English speakers is to conceptually transform Greek anarthrous nouns into English verbs.

                              This is linguistic fact. It’s inarguable, validly. You’re simply wrong.

                              Say believING is a work, but you can’t say faith is a work because it’s a noun. This is very simple.
                              Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                              “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by beloved57 View Post
                                I already showed it from my OP and points thereafter. But its been ignored
                                But the problem is one of the most basic grammatical problems possible, and it’s your lack of understanding rather than others being wrong (even if they don’t understand what makes you wrong and have other issues of doctrine themselves).

                                Faith is a noun. Nouns aren’t verbs.

                                Believe/believING is a verb. Verbs aren’t nouns.

                                Without nouns, there are no corresponding verbs.

                                So there MUST be faith as a “thing” before that “thing” can then take action as actING.

                                Nouns verb. Things do.

                                THE faith is THE thing that comes out of THE message/report, which comes by means of THE Word of God.

                                When you see the verb form indicating believe/believING, it’s because God has given the noun that does that actING. Man cannot believe unto salvation without the noun of faith coming out of the noun that is the message/report/news, which comes by means of the Word (Rhema) of God.

                                Are you going to recant your error or ignore scriptural correction and continue to contend for untruth?
                                Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
                                “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X