pacifism for true Jesus' followers.

Crucible

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the theme of this thread is about Jesus' pacifism teachings and practice which no one can deny.


All you are doing is coming up with all kinds of excuses which is very lame.

When God calls His people to war, they cannot lose- this is a very strong theme in the Bible. In fact, this got to into the heads of Catholics during the Crusades.

With Rome, however, they would have destroyed the Jews. The only way they would win against them is if God Himself came down in a like manner of the event at Sodom. With that being the case, God decided to have both Jew and Gentile take Rome through other means, and that's exactly what happened.

You, however, are using that as a way to teach perpetual pacifism.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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another lame excuse.

It does not change the fact Jesus practiced pacifism and tells His follower to do the same.

The problem is, you don't know the Gospel. Yet, you desire to preach to the world? Wouldn't it make sense to have a grasp on your source material? What is someone were to approach you and ask you how to become a Christian? What would you tell them? Meshak has me on ignore however, these are still good questions for others. Meshak is the Proverbial Ostrich with his head in the sand.
 

jamie

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It does not change the fact Jesus practiced pacifism and tells His follower to do the same.

Not true. The Revelation of Jesus Christ makes it clear Jesus is not a pacifist.

Why are you misrepresenting him? As a human Jesus had no need to kill anyone, he was a Jew in subjection to Rome.
 

Crucible

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Vengeance is Mine, says God. You are not God.

God says to listen to Jesus. But you don't listen to Him.

And God also said this

Jeremiah 48:10
Cursed be he that does the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keeps back his sword from blood.

It's not as simple as you try to make it, meshak.
 

Eric h

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And God also said this

Jeremiah 48:10
Cursed be he that does the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keeps back his sword from blood.

It's not as simple as you try to make it,

Its never simple.

Micah 4

3 He will judge between many peoples
and will settle disputes for strong nations far and wide.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.

4 Everyone will sit under their own vine
and under their own fig tree,
and no one will make them afraid,
for the Lord Almighty has spoken.
 

PureX

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I actually think Jesus was a pacifist. Simply because he didn't ever take up arms to defend himself nor anyone else. Nor did he ever admonish anyone else to do so. And in his time and place in history, there would have been ample opportunity for him to do either. Also, it is clear to me that his message was one of love, forgiveness, kindness and generosity; all attributes that do not generally support violent retaliation. And, clearly, he did specifically admonish us not to return abuse with same, as he did not return the horrific abuse he suffered, with actual or even the promise of retribution, and even to his own death. Instead, he simply asked God to forgive his tormentors.

Unfortunately, pacifism requires a level of moral faith and belief that is beyond what most of us can muster. And so we just can't envision a world in which a human being would allow themselves to be abused or harmed for the sake of an ideal. So we look for excuses and loopholes in the Bible that will allow us to excuse ourselves from the difficult challenge that Jesus lays before us.
 

steko

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Its never simple.

Micah 4

3 He will judge between many peoples
and will settle disputes for strong nations far and wide.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.

4 Everyone will sit under their own vine
and under their own fig tree,
and no one will make them afraid,
for the Lord Almighty has spoken.

These and other prophetic verses describe Israel's Messiah's Davidic reign, which the Lord Jesus was offering to Israel during His earthly ministry. Israel refused, therefore these promises are yet future.
Meanwhile, during this present time the gospel of the grace of GOD is being offered for salvation while men and nations are still at war. Believers and non-believers are stuck with surviving for themselves and for their loved ones as best they can.

Paul said for us to be at peace with all men....as much as one's ability.

The Lord will return in the future and lay down the law for the nations.
The Sermon on the Mount is not the core of Christianity for today.
 

Jacob

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Jacob, you need to know that every word in the Bible is not used the same word. Kings are head of the country. It is simile with president or dictator or whoever is the head of that nation.

KIngs are head of nations.

chariot and horses are military.

Sward is weapon or God's word

and so on... there are many words like that.

and nation or country are pronouned as female too.

I don't know how what you are saying here relates to what I have said here.
 

jamie

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You are completely dismissing the fact that Jesus and His disciples practiced pacifism.

If a woman is being raped should she fight back or be passive?

If she doesn't resist the act could be construed as consensual in a court of law.
 

meshak

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If a woman is being raped should she fight back or be passive?

What this has to do with the military?

Do you have to kill the offender to protect yourself?

I don't have to. And I won't.

I won't just let the offender let rape me. I can escape without killing or harming the offender.

Use common sense, lady.
 

meshak

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And God also said this

Jeremiah 48:10
Cursed be he that does the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keeps back his sword from blood.

It's not as simple as you try to make it, meshak.

You are misusing the scripture to suit your faith.

You are still dismissing the fact Jesus was pacifist and He commands His followers to do the same.

You will not get off the hook on this one.

You can run but you cannot hide, friend.
 

meshak

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Not true. The Revelation of Jesus Christ makes it clear Jesus is not a pacifist.

You are reading it to justify your violent faith.

You don't seem to have spirit of going after Jesus' peaceful teachings.

There are many Jesus' followers have no problem understanding Jesus was pacifist, and commands to do the same to His followers.
 

Crucible

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You are misusing the scripture to suit your faith.

You are still dismissing the fact Jesus was pacifist and He commands His followers to do the same.

You will not get off the hook on this one.

You can run but you cannot hide, friend.

Coming from someone who denies the Trinity, I don't find that very threatening :wave2:
 

john w

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Oh be for real. God is "a man of war" for good reason, not like the selfish, cruel, indifferent leaders of the nations today. He is called that because He will war against all of the evil in this world. To get rid of evil, He has to be war-like to some extent, wouldn't you say? Nations today SAY they want to get rid of evil, but every nation is evil!!! Even this one! They send people far away into harm's way and the body bags keep coming back, and for what? OIL INTERESTS? Take your head out of the sand.


Translated: In my opinion.....

Vs.

Exodus 15:3 KJV The Lord is a man of war: the Lord is his name.


Contrasts.

"Oh be for real"-you

Stumped with that comeback. I'll need to write that one down.



And your citing of Jesus chasing the dishonest money-changers out of the Temple is a WEAK example of trying to say he was violent. I read that account far differently than you do, apparently. Where does it say he lost his temper or that he beat anybody other than enthusiastically urging the animals to get out of the temple? Show me where he hit a person with his ropes.

:nono:

You missed the"argument"-pacifist.


Sit.
 
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