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  • Originally posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    [B]

    View Post
    ..............Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

    Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

    Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

    The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

    Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

    FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

    If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

    The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
    Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches. The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

    The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
    By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

    The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
    Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

    The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
    The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

    Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

    Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

    The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

    Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.

    END EXCERPT QUOTE
    I noticed none of the four marks to the true church was its being Roman...

    Already in the book of revelations we have 7 churches...most of them needed corrections as churches stray and err...(a lot of the NT regards this tendency) and churches divide (ask the Eastern Orthodox)

    But in all of those seven letters to the seven churches, each distinct and separate, there was nothing correcting them for not being founded by Peter...or not being "Roman"...

    Was he the founder of them all? Were they Roman?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by clefty View Post
      I noticed none of the four marks to the true church was its being Roman...
      That's because being Roman Catholic is not a necessary condition to being Catholic.
      There are Catholics (yes, capital-c Catholics) who are not Roman Catholics.
      The Roman Rite is but one rite within the universal Catholic Church.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Rite
      Your "catholic" is showing. - Sozo

      Comment


      • Originally posted by glassjester View Post
        That's because being Roman Catholic is not a necessary condition to being Catholic.
        There are Catholics (yes, capital-c Catholics) who are not Roman Catholics.
        The Roman Rite is but one rite within the universal Catholic Church.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Rite
        Yup...how many different churches now?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by clefty View Post
          I noticed none of the four marks to the true church was its being Roman......
          The name of the Catholic Church is.... ...wait for it... ...the Catholic Church. You are too use to seeing half-wits like the morons in this thread calling it RCC.

          As I posted before:


          Originally posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
          In this forum you will often see the acronym RCC tossed about. Sometimes it is done in innocence, but very often it is done out of malice by people who know better.

          The Catholic Church is the "Catholic Church", not the Roman Catholic Church. Within the Catholic Church, there are many "Rites": The Maronite Rite, the Syriac Rite, the Chaldean Rite, the Byzantine Rite, and many many other "Rites" or Churches, and also included is the Latin Rite, or "Roman" rite if you will. The Roman Catholic Church is a part of the Catholic Church, but that is all.

          What all these Churches - or "Rites" - have in common is doctrine, and submission to the Pope as the Successor of Peter and earthly head of the Church. Not all Catholics are "Latin Rite" Catholics though, and some Catholics can find it rather offensive when the Church is continually referred to as the RCC.

          Now in America, its true that most Catholics are Latin Rite (Roman Catholic) but many are not. But if you go to some other countries you'll find that most Catholics are NOT Roman Catholics.

          What does this say:



          It says "Catechism of the Catholic Church". It does not say "Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church". That is an important point to remember.

          Quote:
          RITES

          A Rite represents an ecclesiastical, or church, tradition about how the sacraments are to be celebrated. Each of the sacraments has at its core an essential nature which must be satisfied for the sacrament to be confected or realized. This essence – of matter, form and intention – derives from the divinely revealed nature of the particular sacrament. It cannot be changed by the Church. Scripture and Sacred Tradition, as interpreted by the Magisterium, tells us what is essential in each of the sacraments (2 Thes. 2:15).

          When the apostles brought the Gospel to the major cultural centers of their day the essential elements of religious practice were inculturated into those cultures. This means that the essential elements were clothed in the symbols and trappings of the particular people, so that the rituals conveyed the desired spiritual meaning to that culture. In this way the Church becomes all things to all men that some might be saved (1 Cor. 9:22).

          There are three major groupings of Rites based on this initial transmission of the faith, the Roman, the Antiochian (Syria) and the Alexandrian (Egypt). Later on the Byzantine derived as a major Rite from the Antiochian, under the influence of St. Basil and St. John Chrysostom. From these four derive the over 20 liturgical Rites present in the Church today.
          source: Catholic Rites and Churches

          Personally, I would appreciate it if peopler referred to me as a Catholic, and my Church as the Catholic Church. It would be the respectful thing to do since nobody here really knows what Rite me or other Catholics here actually are.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by clefty View Post
            Yup...how many different churches now?
            One Church.
            Your "catholic" is showing. - Sozo

            Comment


            • Originally posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
              The name of the Catholic Church is.... ...wait for it... ...the Catholic Church. You are too use to seeing half-wits like the morons in this thread calling it RCC.

              As I posted before:
              Personally, I would appreciate it if peopler referred to me as a Catholic, and my Church as the Catholic Church. It would be the respectful thing to do since nobody here really knows what Rite me or other Catholics here actually are.
              Ok then...well glad that is settled...so much for one church...guess "catechism of the Christian church" or "catechism of the church of Christ" didn't have a big enough ring to it...a global one...ironically the omission remains accurate...

              This cracks me up..."It cannot be changed by the Church. Scripture and Sacred Tradition, as interpreted by the Magisterium, tells us what is essential in each of the sacraments (2 Thes. 2:15).

              So that which cannot be changed can indeed be changed...

              And now that seat which changes is empty...for making changes...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by glassjester View Post
                One Church.
                CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES


                http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/c...d_churches.htm

                Comment


                • Originally posted by clefty View Post

                  The Church is one.

                  From the catechism:
                  813 The Church is one because of her source: "the highest exemplar and source of this mystery is the unity, in the Trinity of Persons, of one God, the Father and the Son in the Holy Spirit."259 The Church is one because of her founder: for "the Word made flesh, the prince of peace, reconciled all men to God by the cross, . . . restoring the unity of all in one people and one body."260 The Church is one because of her "soul": "It is the Holy Spirit, dwelling in those who believe and pervading and ruling over the entire Church, who brings about that wonderful communion of the faithful and joins them together so intimately in Christ that he is the principle of the Church's unity."261 Unity is of the essence of the Church
                  Do you mean to ask the number of individual rites, dioceses, or parishes? These could informally be referred to as "churches." But doctrinally speaking, the Catholic Church is one.
                  Your "catholic" is showing. - Sozo

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by glassjester View Post
                    One Church.
                    One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic, just like the first Christians believed, before the Church even ratified the New Testament.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by glassjester View Post
                      The Church is one.

                      From the catechism:


                      Do you mean to ask the number of individual rites, dioceses, or parishes? These could informally be referred to as "churches." But doctrinally speaking, the Catholic Church is one.
                      Well...not quite yet

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
                        One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic, just like the first Christians believed, before the Church even ratified the New Testament.
                        Yep
                        Your "catholic" is showing. - Sozo

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by clefty View Post
                          Well...not quite yet
                          How so?
                          Your "catholic" is showing. - Sozo

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
                            One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic, just like the first Christians believed, before the Church even ratified the New Testament.
                            Not sure Peter would recognize this Church...he warned of the changes and additions he already saw to the traditions taught by them...long before the NT was ratified...

                            John the revelator wrote to 7 churches...most of which were already straying...

                            But yeah I understand what you intend...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by glassjester View Post
                              How so?
                              Bart sez:

                              "... synodality requires a “protos” — a leader — “who has the charisma of ‘diakonia’ at the service of unity” and seeks the “consensus of everyone.” He said Pope Francis has “revealed his extraordinary leadership” in this regard.

                              Yet, the patriarch recognized that much work has yet to be done toward unity “both between our two churches, as well as within our own churches.”

                              "But as disciples of our Lord … we have no other alternative but to pursue this path of reconciliation and unity. Any other way would be a dishonorable betrayal of the Lord’s will and an unacceptable return to our estranged and regrettable past.”

                              http://catholicphilly.com/2015/04/ne...tion-possible/

                              But it will happen...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by clefty View Post
                                You found an excellent source. You would do well to dig deep and long into that website.

                                The word "Church"has many meanings. One of them is the Body of believers. In that sense there is only One Church - Christ is the Head and we are the body.

                                Another meaning is individual buildings or Churches. Yet another is individual rites.

                                "Church" is a many-fold deep word depending on the context of its usage.

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